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JimK

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  1. Hi Lin, Thanks for pointing out the button option. You are right that it has many nice features that would make it useful as a text box. I gather it currently can only do one line of text. If that could be expanded to make multiple lines of text it would be a very good text box. I thought about possibly stacking multiple buttons together to make multiple lines but realized that requires aligning timing on different objects, which raises the same issues as having the text and background on different layers. With the versions of software that are currently available, I think ProShow Producer (PSP) is the best software for historical slideshows. Let me be clear, I don’t think it is good, just less difficult to use than other currently available software for the specific types of slideshows I make. Two features in particular drive this opinion. One is that PSP currently has an option to insert and remove time early in a timeline and shift existing keyframes. The second feature is that the timelines for different layers can be viewed and modified at the same time, which makes working with precisely aligned and sequenced zoom, pan, and text effects much easier than working with one timeline at a time. However, the PSP multiple timeline editor shows the timelines for all objects for a slide. When there are many objects, the display is often overly busy and the few timelines that I’m actively working on are often widely separated and difficult to focus on. Also, with PSP moving a set of keyframes that is aligned across layers is done by basically rebuilding the alignment from scratch. From my perspective, it would be better to show a few selected timelines and have the software make it easier to maintain existing alignments when moving keyframes. Following your lead, it might be useful to summarize more specifically what I think is needed for PTE to be more useful for historical slideshows like I make. The following features are basically essential. Allow the insertion or removal of time early in a slide in a way that shifts existing keypoints. Have an easier way to create and use text on a background. Making the button feature handle multiple lines of text appears to be a very good and easy way to do that. It might also be useful to add another theme that is more uniform for a background and looks less like a button. Make the mouse scroll wheel zoom the image. (FYI, the Control-F11/F12 hot keys described in the manual do not zoom on my computer.) Frankly, I’m not sure whether being able to display and work with multiple timelines at once would be essential. If text is handled as one object rather than separate objects for text and background, the need to handle multiple timelines will be significantly reduced. I have not worked in that situation and am not sure how well it would work. If there is some way to set a marker that can be a reference point on different timelines that may be adequate. If we want to go beyond making a program that is minimally usable and make one that is nicely usable, the following features would be added. Have an option for snap to time increments when working with timelines. Display the duration of time between a current keypoint and the keypoint on the left. Have an option for whether the time on a timeline is relative to the beginning of the slide or the beginning of the slideshow (or display both). Have a system option for whether smooth or linear is the default speed for new keypoints. Have an easy, intuitive way to transfer the pan, zoom, and rotate settings from one keypoint to another existing keypoint. Be able to view and work with timelines for selected multiple objects in a way that is easy to align keypoints on different layers and move sets of aligned keypoints . Be able to select and move groups of keypoints. Jim
  2. Hi Ken, I think we may be talking about different things here. It may be useful to distinguish basic functions from advanced functions. I consider keypoints, pan, zoom, and text as basic functions for slideshow software. Rotating 3-D cubes is an advanced function. I’m looking for slideshow software for historical slide shows that has basic capabilities for extensive use of pan, zoom, and text. I’m not trying to rotate 3-D cubes. As has been discussed here, I can see needing to go to a forum like this to learn how to rotate 3-D cubes. But, I think well designed software will have the basics such as pan, zoom, and text readily usable without having to go to a forum to learn how to use them. The fact that something as basic as adding a new keypoint requires that the glue/separate settings be changed in a way that is virtually impossible to understand without esoteric explanation at a forum like this is a fundamental problem with the design of the software that will not be resolved by going back to an earlier version that has the same limitations. Basic processes are unnecessarily complicated in the current version and I presume in previous versions. For the types of slideshows I do and would like to encourage others to do, in addition to the glue/separate issue, the process of making text with background fade in and out is too complicated, and the ability to insert time and effects toward the beginning of a slide without having to manually shift all the existing keypoints is another significant limitation for a function that I consider basic. I think the market for PTE would increase significantly if the basic functions were made easier to use. For example, I currently cannot recommend PTE as the best software for historical slideshows, but the improvements to make it the best would not take great effort or compromise advanced functions. The advanced functions are probably inevitably going to be complicated with a significant learning curve, but that does not mean the basic functions should be complicated. I also think that there are ways to improve handling of timelines for multiple objects that would greatly improve working with both basic and advanced functions and have offered some ideas on a separate thread. Jim
  3. Hi Lin, I think your comments about a possible PTE Lite and comparison with Photoshop and Photoshop Elements may be a good way to bring into focus some of the issues that have been raised. For historical slideshows like I work with and I gather that John works with, the typical menu driven slideshow software that you were describing is not adequate. Keyframes and layers are needed for the type of historical slideshows I make and the simple software that I have seen does not have them. So a PTE Lite for my purposes would still need to be significantly more advanced than most other slideshow software. I just finished writing a book chapter describing how to process historical images with both Photoshop CS and Photoshop Elements and was surprised at how much could be done with Elements. As a Photoshop CS user I had not paid much attention to Elements until I wanted to include it in the book and tried going through my usual workflow step by step in Elements. Photoshop Elements is basically a subset of the features of Photoshop CS. Elements contains the basic processes needed to edit images and the operation of these processes is essentially the same for both CS and Elements. These processes are relatively easy to use and to describe. The comparison of Photoshop CS and Elements really made me appreciate how Adobe has made the basic foundational functions of Photoshop CS relatively easy to use while also providing all the advanced features. The situation with PTE appears to be very different than with Photoshop. A subset of the features of PTE that I need will not be easy to use. From my perspective the basic foundational functions of PTE and other slideshow software are difficult to use or not yet developed. I can describe how to use Photoshop CS, Photoshop Elements, consumer and professional level audio editing programs, and scanning software in a straightforward way for some reasonably sophisticated processes. But when I come to slideshow software it is page after page of convoluted explanation for the kinds of basic processes that are simple and routine for other software. I gather from your comments that you are thinking that ease of use is inconsistent with advanced capabilities. My experience in developing and using software has been more consistent with the idea that well designed software can and should be relatively easy to use for basic processes as well as have advanced features that are more complicated. The great majority of the improvements that are being suggested for PTE could be done without in any way constraining advanced capabilities --assuming the existing programming has been done in a reasonably optimal way that does not create unnecessary constraints. My impression from browsing this forum is that the advanced users of PTE are generally much more aware of and supportive of making PTE easier to use than are the participants in the forums for some competing products. With that kind of support, PTE could well become the software that breaks through existing barriers. The cost of PTE is comparable to Photoshop Elements and to other consumer level software. It is about 1/3 the cost of ProShow Producer and about 1/9 the cost of Photoshop CS. I for one would be willing to pay more for more highly developed software. Jim
  4. Here are some suggestions that could make working with timelines for multiple layers much easier and more efficient. These suggestions build upon the existing software architecture, which is easy because PTE has a good foundational design. I just retired from working as a software designer and programmer and have seen many times the striking effects of improvements like this. The basic strategy is to have one active timeline as currently occurs, but also display timelines for selected other layers or objects. For ease of communication, I’ll use the term layer for any object or row in the object list on the lower right of the O & A screen. Certain methods would allow easily switching to a different active layer and aligning keypoints across layers. On the O & A screen, the timeline area at the bottom would be expanded to show up to 6 timelines. The lines for the timelines could be fairly close together and the times would not be permanently displayed for each keypoint as they are now (or time could be displayed on only the active timeline). There would be a time axis at the bottom with ticks every .25 seconds. The actual layers that are displayed in the timeline area would be selected by adding checkboxes to the objects list that is currently displayed on the lower right of the screen. For each layer or row, a checkbox would be present. By default the checkbox is blank. If the checkbox is checked, the timeline for the layer is displayed in the timeline area. Up to 6 layers can be checked. The displayed timelines would be numbered from top to bottom in both the timeline area and the objects list and would be in the order found in the objects list. If a layer that is not checked is selected by clicking on the layer name in the objects list, then only that one layer will be displayed in the timeline area. If no layers are checked the system would basically operate as it does today. The user who only wants to pan and zoom an image would not have to see or work with multiple timelines. The single timeline that is active could be selected by clicking on one of the timelines in the timeline area or by clicking on the layer name in the object list as currently happens. The image displayed would be for the selected active timeline as is current practice and the active timeline row would be highlighted in the timeline area as well as on the objects list. On the displayed timelines, a keypoint would be indicated by a dot (as it currently is) if there is no other displayed keypoint at that time. If there are one or more other displayed keypoints at that time, all the keypoints at that time on different layers would be indicated by a square rather than a dot. A keypoint could be moved by dragging the dot or square. If the Alt key was held down while a square keypoint was being dragged, all the other displayed keypoints at that time would be moved in synch. When the mouse pointer is held over a keypoint, moving the mouse scroll wheel would cause the keypoint or keypoints to move left or right with fairly fine resolution for precise alignment. If the mouse pointer is over the image display, then the mouse scroll wheel will zoom the image size. As a keypoint is moved, round keypoints on other layers would become squares as the moving keypoint aligned with them. Stopping would allow permanent alignment and continuing to move would result in the keypoints becoming dots again. Similarly, a moving round keypoint would become square as it aligned with another keypoint. As the mouse pointer is held over a keypoint, the exact time of the keypoint and time duration from the keypoint on the left would both be displayed. A system option would determine whether the time displayed for a keypoint is relative to the beginning of the slide or the beginning of the slideshow. Or, perhaps both times could be displayed. When any location on the active timeline is clicked, the right mouse button would include the option to insert or remove time at that point. A box to input the amount of time would be displayed. The time would be added or removed immediately to the right of the clicked point. The overall duration of the slide would be changed by the specified amount of time and keypoints on all layers (including those not displayed) would be shifted accordingly without changing the times between keypoints except at the location of the time insertion/removal. If the removed time includes any keypoints on any layer, a warning message would display and notify the user that keypoints are in the removed area and they will be shifted to the cut point (they would not be deleted). The option to cancel the time change would also be available. The Animation tab would have two checkboxes added in the zoom, pan, and rotate area. The boxes would be something like “Same as Left” and “Same as Right”. These would indicate and can set whether the zoom, pan, and rotate settings are the same as on the adjacent keypoints to the left and to the right. These boxes would be updated if changes are made later to the adjacent keypoints. System options would determine whether the default type of animation speed for a new keypoint is linear, smooth, etc. and the default would be separate rather than glued. The above would be the basic features. The maximum number of timelines displayed could be more or less than 6 depending on how much space is needed for displaying the image. When trying to imagine how this will work, keep in mind that it will be very easy to switch which timelines are displayed and to use one or two timelines as a model for transferring changes to other groups of timelines. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Additional options that could be added initially or at a later time are listed below. Holding down the control key while dragging a keypoint would cause all the other keypoints on the timeline in the direction of motion to shift while keeping the same times between keypoints (except for the keypoint on the very end). The duration of the slide would not be changed. Holding down both the Alt and control keys would cause all keypoints on all displayed layers to shift in the direction of motion. If a timeline is displayed that should not be moved, click the checkbox to remove the layer from display, move the keypoints for the remaining layers, and then check the box to bring back the other layer. Three checkboxes could be displayed somewhere on the screen to control display options. These would be: - Time Markers: checking this box would make vertical thin or dotted lines display up through the timelines on every .25 second tick. - Connections: checking this box would make vertical thin or dotted lines connect the square keypoints. - Snap: checking this box would make movement on the timelines snap to .25 second increments. The number of timelines that could be displayed in the timeline area could be increased and include scroll bars for larger displays. I’m not sure if this will be needed. It may be that 6 timelines will be about all that people need or can handle, or it may be that some people will want to display all the timelines. I would suggest seeing how 6 work first but programming in a way that anticipates possible expansion. A few options that are more sophisticated and challenging to program (but are becoming routine for Adobe products) are: - Allow the user to drag a rectangle that selects keypoints on one or more of the displayed timelines and shift the entire block without changing the relative timing of keypoints within the block. - If the mouse pointer is in the timeline area but not on a keypoint, then the mouse scroll wheel will zoom or expand the resolution of the timeline and scroll bars will appear. A slider could also be used to expand the resolution of the timeline. - If a large number of timelines can be displayed at once, allow the user to drag a line separating the image display and timeline area to change the relative size of the image and timeline areas. - Allow the user to add time to the slide by holding down the control-alt-shift keys while dragging the mouse on the active timeline. The location and amount of time added would be displayed real-time based on the amount of dragging. Time could be removed by dragging the mouse to select an area on the active timeline and then having a remove option on the right mouse button. The time changes would apply to all layers and warning would be given if keypoints are in an area to be removed.
  5. Tom, I fully agree with your general concern about archival formats. One of the explicit goals for the book is to describe for families how to make digital copies of their historical items in a way that can be directly transferred to a library, museum, or other historical archive, including documentation and legal issues as well as technical. Another goal is to encourage families to make and use digital copies rather than continuing to handle, display, and pass around the original items, which along with non-optimal storage conditions is a major source of deterioration for historical items. I have mixed feelings about PTE handling TIFF files. ProShow Producer handles TIFF but in doing so encodes or compresses all files, which sometimes works ok and sometimes not. When it does not work well there are no options. Given my experience with Producer I'm attracted to the PTE strategy that I manage the compression of images for a slideshow and can make high resolution images for cases when there will be more extreme zooming and lower resolution in other cases. The PTE strategy is also consistent with the general strategy for an historical archive of keeping high resolution master images in TIFF format and making working copies that are optimized for particular displays. Because an image that is optimized for printing will be different than an image optimized for the internet, and an image optimized for a slideshow may be different from the others, my book has a chapter on preparing digital images for different types of presentation as well as a chapter on making the master images for the archive. Jim
  6. Thanks Lin for the helpful information and support. I tried your instructions for using a mask to control text and got it to work. In terms of the book I’m writing it would take several paragraphs to explain that and would likely discourage rather than encourage people from beginning to make slideshows. I hope you are right that adding background to the text feature might be added in future versions of PTE. It would be so much easier to be able to just say that setting the text and background is straightforward from the text properties tab. Plus it would be much easier for people like myself who do not make a lot of slideshows. When working with a text object, PTE displays a frame or outline that nicely adapts to the text and should be fairly easy to fill with a background. My understanding and experiments with adding time to a slide using the option Scale Keyframes on time change are that it does not do what I need. A typical case would be when zooming, panning, and text effects have been set for a slide and we want to add a new text effect and associated keyframes at a certain point in the middle of the slide duration. The time between keyframes for all objects should remain the same except for the specific point where time is inserted. The option to scale keyframes alters the time between all keypoints. Here is a more detailed description that might guide programming for the general function. When any location on the active timeline is clicked, the right mouse button would include the option to insert or remove time at that point. A box to input the amount of time would be displayed. The time would be added or removed immediately to the right of the clicked point. The overall duration of the slide would be changed by the specified amount of time and keypoints on all layers would be shifted accordingly without changing the times between keypoints except at the location of the time insertion/removal. If the removed time includes any keypoints on any layer, a warning message would display and notify the user that keypoints are in the removed area and they will be shifted to the cut point (they would not be deleted). The option to cancel the time change would also be available. Having the mouse scroll wheel zoom the image would be particularly valuable when a high degree of zooming is done such as 500%. I sometimes use that for historical slides. Dragging the corners of the image does not work well for that degree of zooming. Entering numbers in the zoom fields is easier, but then refining the display is cumbersome. The suggestions for interactive slideshows are very interesting. Most of my slideshows have been intended primarily for groups of people to watch on a TV. Making them more interactive for use with computers has interesting possibilities that I’ll be thinking about. My overall impression at this point is that the types of features I want are likely to be implemented, but maybe over a couple or so upgrade cycles. I think that improving the handling of timelines for multiple layers would be very valuable and am submitting a separate topic with specific ideas on that. Jim
  7. I’m writing a book on digital archiving and presentation of historical photos and sound recordings. It includes a chapter on making slideshows because I think that slideshows are the most effective way to present historical information and should be used more. Most of my experience has been with Proshow Gold and Proshow Producer (PSP) and I prepared the draft chapter describing them. However, the explanation of all the complexity and pitfalls in using PSP would probably turn off people more than encourage them. I’ve been looking at various alternative slideshow software and PTE appears to be one of the best. It was developed with a much better sense of system design and workflow than PSP. However, it appears that some key functions that I often use and want to include are not yet reasonably available with PTE. Putting text on slides to identify people and provide other historical information is very useful in slideshows suitable for future generations, but should be done in a way that minimizes distraction away from the basic image. A typical example would be to pan across a group of people and briefly show the name of each person above the person. The text will have a background for consistency throughout the slideshow. 1. Making text and its background fade in and out appears to me to currently be more complicated with PTE than I could reasonably describe and recommend for a person making an historical slideshow. The simplest strategy would be to have background color as an option for the text feature, without requiring a separate layer for the background. Text on a background is a frequently used and discussed function in slideshows and it is somewhat surprising to me that neither PSP nor PTE has developed a simple method. A parent-child relationship between the background and text is more complex but would be usable if opacity could be included as an inherited parameter. I see that this option was discussed a few months back but some considered it a lower priority and not very useful. I looked at a tutorial on using masks and think that using masks to control the display of text is too complicated for anyone but dedicated PTE enthusiasts. 2. Another issue is adding time at a particular point for a slide. A common situation is that a slide has been prepared with zooming, panning, and text and then some additional information is obtained that needs to be inserted near the beginning or middle of the slide. Time needs to be inserted at a certain point, which expands the overall slide duration and shifts all existing keypoints to the right. My understanding is that in PTE this would have to be handled by manually shifting each keypoint on each layer. Is there a more efficient way to do it with PTE? One of the main reasons that I consider PSP as (barely) usable for historical slideshows and PTE as currently not usable is that PSP has the capability to insert time early in the timeline and automatically shift keyframes on all layers. However, the PSP method also has complications that appear to me to be unnecessary. 3. Overall ease of use and intuitiveness of the workspace is another significant factor for all available software. I think that greatly improved methods for displaying and working with timelines for multiple layers can be developed -- and the software developer that does that first will likely dominate the slideshow software market. It would be relatively easy (compared to other software) to make handling of multiple timelines in PTE dramatically easier and far ahead of any competition. In addition, the existing interfaces for slideshow software have many awkward features that cumulatively make the programs difficult to use. For example, both PSP and PTE handle gluing/separation of keypoints in ways that virtually maximize awkwardness. As has been frequently discussed on this forum, being able to move a group of keypoints on a timeline is a basic need for slideshow software. In general, both PSP and PTE require entering numbers in fields to a degree that seems inefficient to me. An option to make keypoints snap to time increments would be an improvement. On all image processing software that I use the mouse scroll wheel zooms the image. I have not found a way to set that in PTE, which seems inefficient and counterintuitive to me now. Do users of PTE consider the issues described above as priorities or are other things more important now? More generally, how much effort in upgrades is and should be put into making PTE easy and efficient to use versus adding complex special effects for the dedicated enthusiasts? PSP is limited by unfortunate initial design of their workspace and workflow, and now appears to have chosen to focus on adding special effects with little effort (or perhaps ability) to improve workflow. I think it is inevitable that that at some point a software developer with a good sense of ease of use and workflow will develop slideshow software that is much easier to use and will dominate and expand the market. PTE has the potential for improvements to workflow that would leave the competition far behind, but I wonder if that is a priority for the developers and users. Thanks. Jim
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