Dual Screen Facility

[JDoran]

Hi,

Posted this on the av projector thread but it got "lost" so am trying again.

A friend suggested that it should be possible to display two different programs by linking a single PC/Laptop to two separate monitors. Can anyone advise if this is possible and if so how to do it. I believe it may require a special graphics card but not sure.

I am thinking that it would be useful to be able to display a slideshow on an av projector while displaying speakers notes on the laptop monitor.

Jane

[Maureen]

I have a dual graphics card and frequently construct my sequences with PTE, Adobe Photoshop and Adobe Audition open at the same time.

I can have PTE open on one monitor and then if I feel I need to edit an image or a piece of soundtrack I will go and do it on the other monitor.

I have no problem and find it works well for me.

Haven't tried the projector on one and software on the other.

Hope this helps.

BW Maureen

[alrobin]

I wonder if it could be made to work with 2 projectors?? That would be something!!

It probably wouldn't work, though, as my PTE always seems to always open on the "main" monitor. However, if working in "window mode" I can move it over to the other monitor.

[bjc]

I think you will find that dual projectors work perfectly, providing you have a dual-monitor graphics card.

I have done a number of lectures using dual projectors, and only on one occasion was there any sort of 'conflict' (?) that stopped the second projector from working (never did figure out why that was).

There is no better working environment than a dual monitor set up – once experienced you’ll never go back to working with a single monitor. And dual projectors for the tutorial/lecture purposes really is the way to go.

bjc

[davegee]

Hi bjc,

Can you recommend a good dual graphics card (for PC)?

DaveG

[Ken Cox]

Dave

see

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=dual+g...le+Search&meta=

enough hits to get you real confused

you might get some background stuff at least -- pro's - con's

ken

[davegee]

Thanks Ken,

I was looking for a recommendation - I have been through the search processes and remain confused.

DaveG

[alrobin]

I think you will find that dual projectors work perfectly, providing you have a dual-monitor graphics card

BJC,

you're right, the projectors will work as dual outputs, but I wonder if a second instance of PTE can be directed to the second monitor (i.e. second projector).

Can you recommend a good dual graphics card (for PC)?

DaveG,

You can't go wrong with the ATI Radeon series - I use a 9600 "All in Wonder" card (with dual RGB outputs).

[bjc]

Davegee ~ I wouldn’t consider myself qualified in any way to truly know what I was talking about re: recommending a good dual-head graphics card, other than to say that the two I have both work just fine. I have two systems, both running dual-head cards ~ in the one is a Radeon 7000 VE ~ in the other a Radeon 9600 Pro. Both provide for one standard CRT output, and one DVI output (plus TV in both cases). The DVI socket is readily converted to a standard CRT socket by way of a simple. and inexpensive, adaptor plug (DVI in – CRT out) ~ this allows for two standard monitors (or two projectors) to be used at the same time (or one of each !?). No doubt the same can be said for whole bunch of other makes of graphics card,,, but I’ve always chosen Radeon ~~~ a decision probably based on price and features, at that time (?).

Alrobin ~ as you also have a Radeon card I would imagine that you would have very similar software driving them as mine. If you right-click your desktop ~ choose Properties > Settings > Advanced > Displays,,, and with two monitors connected, you should have the option to expand your desktop across two screens – and/or – to have both monitors showing the same thing (which I think is what you asked about) ~ yes that works ~ although it doesn’t really benefit a home environment,,, but it would be really handy in an ‘L’ shaped lecture room, with dual projectors !? Or to provide you with a monitor screen and matching projector image when not working with a Laptop.

Regards,

bjc

[alrobin]

BJC,

I was wondering if it would be possible to show two different PTE shows at the same time, one on one projector, and the other on the other projector (like in the old days when we used to use 2 projectors in order to achieve a fade/dissolve transition).

This would be one way of superimposing titles or text, for example, without the extra work in Photoshop to combine the text with the images, or for providing an extra level of control over certain effects such as having one transition overlap another. One wouldn't have to make two completely different shows for example, in order to have text in different languages for different occasions. There may be other possible applications, too.

I can start two shows running at the same time on my pc, but I don't know how to direct one show to one projector (or monitor) and the other one to the second projector without using "windowed mode". That would be one way to do it, however. Of course there would also be some problems as to which show was controlled by the mouse and keyboard, etc.

[Ken Cox]

Dave

this week's issue of tips and tweaks may have something to help in your quest

ken

quote

Tips and Tweaks

PC World columnist Steve Bass writes weekly commentary on the technology products he loves, the strategies for getting the most out of them, and the gotchas that can cause computing misery.

October 19th, 2005

Monitor Megaplex

Steve Bass

How many monitors are you using these days? I've been pretty happy with my setup, but I'm getting jealous of the privileged few who have monitor megaplexes on their desks. So I did some searching and came up with a way to create my very own four-display array. I haven't tried it out yet, but I thought I'd share it with you this week. Read on for details.

Four Monitors Are Better Than One (or Even Two)

In May I told you about my switch to a dual-monitor setup. See "Pack More on Your Screen and Desktop":

http://www.pcworld.com/howto/article/0,aid...8,tk,sbx,00.asp

Also, "Two Monitors Are Way Better Than One":

http://www.pcworld.com/howto/article/0,aid...7,tk,sbx,00.asp

Since then I've heard about a few other ways you can play around with additional monitors.

I haven't tried it, but one reader mentioned using a $30 program called MaxiVista as a way to turn a notebook into a second monitor for your primary PC, using a network connection:

http://www.maxivista.com/

The developers claim you can control up to four PCs with one mouse and keyboard, too. If you're curious, download the 14-day trial version:

http://www.maxivista.com/download.htm

If you're starting from scratch, and have what I imagine to be beaucoup bucks and a mighty wide desk, you may want an Athens five-panel LCD monitor from Lieberman Inc. The specs on this monster are amazing: The maximum resolution is 19,200 by 2400 pixels; it's almost 29 inches wide; and it weighs 134 pounds. See for yourself:

http://go-l.com/monitors/athens/features/index.htm

But this may all be a spoof. I sent Lieberman Inc. an e-mail and it bounced. And the corporate site explains: "Presently, no new pre-orders are being taken for any current or future products and all new hardware and software product development roadmaps are under re-structuring." Makes you wonder.

For some sure-fire real displays, visit PC World's Info Center for Monitors:

http://www.pcworld.com/resource/infocenter...s,tk,sbx,00.asp

Ultimate DIY Multi-Monitor Setup

Get out your checkbook and grab four ViewSonic head-only monitors (that's the LCD panel without a stand) for a little over four grand:

http://find.pcworld.com/49971

Stick them on a $400 quad-display stand, also available from ViewSonic:

http://find.pcworld.com/49970

Then follow the step-by-step, online instructions to set it all up:

http://www.viewsonic.com/multipanelsetup/index.htm

Once everything is up and running, get your stockbroker on the line (first make sure they've got only two monitors) and start gloating.

[Conflow]

Hi,

Posted this on the av projector thread but it got "lost" so am trying again.

A friend suggested that it should be possible to display two different programs by linking a single PC/Laptop to two separate monitors. Can anyone advise if this is possible and if so how to do it. I believe it may require a special graphics card but not sure.

I am thinking that it would be useful to be able to display a slideshow on an av projector while displaying speakers notes on the laptop monitor.

Jane

Jane,

I have readthe various 'Posts' on the above subject and the following may help you:-

1)

You mention..."a single PC/Laptop"....which is it to be ? a PC or a Laptop ~ they are quite different !

2)

The 'Laptop' is a non-runner because the Graphic Card is part of the Motherboard and can't be changed.

3)

Yes you can use a Desktop PC..provided..it is a modern Win.XP-SP2 Version or a Win.2000 with SP2.

Other 'Operating Systems' such as '95 or '98 or ME or NT will not work in your application.

4)

Either PC will require a minimum of 256mB RAM or User Memory ~ better to have 512mB of Memory.

5)

You will need a new "Dual-Output Graphic Card" with at least 128mB of Cache Memory on Board.

One of the NVIDIA G-Force Cards with 'Dual-Output' (distinct from shared Output) will do ~ Check this.

6)

The new 'Graphic Card' will have two Video Output, most likely a 'VGA-Output' and a 'DVI-Output'

7)

You will need a 'DVI to VGA Adaptor' to convert DVI to VGA ~ now you have 2 x Video Outputs (2xVGA's)

8)

One VGA-Output goes straight to your 'Projector' and the other goes to your 'PC.Monitor'

9)

So now you can show your PTE Presentation on Projector Screen ~and~ show your Notes on the PC.Monitor

and 'swap-over' as need's require.

10)

It is better to use 'Powerpoint' when making your Notes ~ because you can 'page select' these at will.

11)

You will need a Technician (just once) to set up the System for you ~ so it defaults to 'Single-Screen' if you are

not using the 'Dual-Output'

Hope this helps...

Brian.Conflow Services.

[JDoran]

Thanks Brian for your response. Since posting I am now a little clearer about this subject - thanks to all who helped.

I have not yet purchased the equipment (on behalf of local club) so I am able to select a laptop with a suitable graphics card. I feel that the extra cost is justified because it will then be possible for the speaker to read from their notes on the laptop while the images are being displayed on-screen. It also opens up other possibilities such as recording audience votes in real time. It has been interesting to read some of the other posts on this thread as clearly dual output may open up other possibilities that we can investigate once we have the equipment.

Main problem now (which I have posted on a separate thread) is that many of the laptops that have the capabilities that you refer to (RAM etc) are wide screen (16:9 or 16:10) and higher resolution (1280x720). This poses a problem as our budget is unlikely to run to anything more than an XGA projector. I have been advised that the projector resolution and native laptop resolution should be the same however from the responses on this forum there seems room for debate on this point. I would be interested in your comments on that.

Jane

[Conflow]

Thanks Brian for your response. Since posting I am now a little clearer about this subject - thanks to all who helped.

I have not yet purchased the equipment (on behalf of local club) so I am able to select a laptop with a suitable graphics card. I feel that the extra cost is justified because it will then be possible for the speaker to read from their notes on the laptop while the images are being displayed on-screen. It also opens up other possibilities such as recording audience votes in real time. It has been interesting to read some of the other posts on this thread as clearly dual output may open up other possibilities that we can investigate once we have the equipment.

Main problem now (which I have posted on a separate thread) is that many of the laptops that have the capabilities that you refer to (RAM etc) are wide screen (16:9 or 16:10) and higher resolution (1280x720). This poses a problem as our budget is unlikely to run to anything more than an XGA projector. I have been advised that the projector resolution and native laptop resolution should be the same however from the responses on this forum there seems room for debate on this point. I would be interested in your comments on that.

Jane

Jane,

I don't know of any Laptop that has 'Dual VGA Output' Utility !

I would imagine if it exists that its going to be a 'top-end Product' and would be expensive.

You might try 'EBay.com' to see if a 'used' device is on offer.

On the Projector end of things I have little experience, but there are people on this Forum

who have gone down that road and are quite experienced.

Brian.Conflow.

[apepper]

Jane,

I don't know of any Laptop that has 'Dual VGA Output' Utility !

I would imagine if it exists that its going to be a 'top-end Product' and would be expensive.

You might try 'EBay.com' to see if a 'used' device is on offer.

On the Projector end of things I have little experience, but there are people on this Forum

who have gone down that road and are quite experienced.

Brian.Conflow.

AFAIAA, pretty much every laptop has a video out port which can plug into a projector. If you plug a monitor into that port, then mostly you get a clone of the laptop screen, but you should be able to go into the display properties and "attach" the second monitor; that extends the desktop onto the second monitor.

The problem with PTE is that it only runs the show to the primary monitor; in display settings you can make the projector the primary monitor either doing that, or having the external monitor as a clone of the laptop screen are the only two ways that PTE can drive the projector.

As PTE generates an executable which, when run, gives the slideshow, I imagine the way to support multiple monitors is to add a controller to the start up window which, if a second monitor is detected, asks which display to use for the show. ISTR, its on the wishlist - but not in version 5 (AFAIK).

I'm putting some notes about running digital slide shows using projectors onto our camera club website www.millcameragroup.org.uk.

-Andrew

[JDoran]

Thanks Andrew for your reply. As you say dual output from suitable laptop is possible either via on-board graphics card or via a PCMCIA card.

I continue to try to identify a suitable laptop/projector combination that will satisfy all club members requirements and within budget - not proving easy!

Consensus opinion on this thread appears to be that a P2Exe show can be directed to primary output (projector) while another application is output to secondary output (laptop screen). Can you clarify if you have done that at your club? I have read the info that you have posted on your club website but it related to powerpoint running as the sole application.

Thanks

Jane

[Conflow]

Jane,

Be careful about your Laptop selection ~ to follow Andrews post, I am quite well aware that virtually every PC including Laptops have a 'Monitor Output'~ problem being that the output is a "clone" of the Laptop Display, and having read your query again that is not what you wanted !

I made it very clear in my detailed Posting that you need a "Dual-Graphics Card" ~ that is a Card which can output 2 completely different Programs simultaneously not just a clone of the Display Program.

You wanted the Laptop to 'output' a PTE Slideshow on to a large Screen via a Projector ~ whilst at the same time ~ providing your 'Show Notes' on the Laptop Monitor. That requires a 'Dual-Graphics Card' NOT a 'Dual-Output Card', both are quite different things.

As I said, that type of Laptop is expensive as it is aimed at the 'Professional Graphics IT Community' and usually runs 'Lecture Hall Software' (a few hundred Euro's worth) ~ in reality you need to be looking at Hewlett-Packard Pro-Laptops or Compaq (which is now H.P) or some other Pro-PC Manufacturer.

Hope this helps....

Brian.Conflow.

[apepper]

Thanks Andrew for your reply. As you say dual output from suitable laptop is possible either via on-board graphics card or via a PCMCIA card.

I continue to try to identify a suitable laptop/projector combination that will satisfy all club members requirements and within budget - not proving easy!

Consensus opinion on this thread appears to be that a P2Exe show can be directed to primary output (projector) while another application is output to secondary output (laptop screen). Can you clarify if you have done that at your club? I have read the info that you have posted on your club website but it related to powerpoint running as the sole application.

Thanks

Jane

I'm doing that right now, I'm running PTE on the external monitor; which I've configured to be my primary screen, and I'm replying your message on the laptop screen.

As you only found the Powerpoint stuff on the website, it sounds like you clicked on the big "Using Powerpoint..." button, if you click the "digital" button on the top part of the website, you should get a more general description of my experiences with digital projection.

If you only use a single projector, then most modern laptops seem suitable - I'm using a Packard bell R4650 which, ISTR, cost £500. We have a "next generation" projector with higher resolution than most (1400 x 1050) so I had to check that the laptop video driver could actually make full use of that.

Having the projector as the primary monitor, is a pain - when you open explorer, for example, it always opens on the primary so it looks a bit amateurish for the audience to see you fiddling around starting the show going.

Maybe version 6 of PTE will support multiple monitors!

-Andrew

[apepper]

...Maybe version 6 of PTE will support multiple monitors!

-Andrew

I know I'm commenting on my own message But I've just thought that if (& I think it does) PTE uses DirectX to drive the screen, then a big problem is that DirectX doesn't yet support multiple monitors - or to be more accurate, only the primary monitor can be driven in full screen mode by DirectX, although it is rumoured that DirectX support for multiple monitors will improve Real Soon Now .

-Andrew

[JDoran]

Hi Andrew

Ok, I got the "digital" link on your website this time. Some really detailed and valuable info so thanks very much for pointing me there. I am in a very similar situation in that our camera club has successfully applied for lottery grant so I guess you are familiar with my dilemma.

On the basis of your and other replies on this thread I am fairly confident now that we can output P2Exe to the projector while running word processor or speadsheet on laptop. I have got hold of a fairly standard laptop and will be trying it out this weekend using an additional monitor instead of a projector. Fingers crossed.

Main problem now is that I am having difficulty matching laptop with projector so your comments on this problem on the website were particularly helpful. As you probably know general advice is to match native resolution of laptop with that of projector but some on this forum have suggested that any loss of quality due to a resolution "mis-match" is in practice negligible. Have you noticed any loss of quality? - it appears that you have a fairly large mismatch between native resolution on laptop and projector.

Also if you have any comments on whether DVI output/input is required I would be interested. Again the general advice is that it will give the highest quality image but in practice some have suggested any improvement is negligible.

Interested to see your comments on the website about other software but our view at the club is that P2Exe is a must. The equipment/methodology simply has to fit round it.

Thanks again for your input

Jane

[apepper]

Hi Andrew

Ok, I got the "digital" link on your website this time. Some really detailed and valuable info so thanks very much for pointing me there. I am in a very similar situation in that our camera club has successfully applied for lottery grant so I guess you are familiar with my dilemma.

On the basis of your and other replies on this thread I am fairly confident now that we can output P2Exe to the projector while running word processor or speadsheet on laptop. I have got hold of a fairly standard laptop and will be trying it out this weekend using an additional monitor instead of a projector. Fingers crossed.

Main problem now is that I am having difficulty matching laptop with projector so your comments on this problem on the website were particularly helpful. As you probably know general advice is to match native resolution of laptop with that of projector but some on this forum have suggested that any loss of quality due to a resolution "mis-match" is in practice negligible. Have you noticed any loss of quality? - it appears that you have a fairly large mismatch between native resolution on laptop and projector.

Also if you have any comments on whether DVI output/input is required I would be interested. Again the general advice is that it will give the highest quality image but in practice some have suggested any improvement is negligible.

Interested to see your comments on the website about other software but our view at the club is that P2Exe is a must. The equipment/methodology simply has to fit round it.

Thanks again for your input

Jane

We have a particular problem with mismatched resolution as the projector resolution is higher than the laptop screen, also - and this is very widespread now - the laptop has a "widescreen" aspect ration (16 x 9), whereas the projector is 4 x 3.

I can set the projector as a clone of the laptop screen, as the laptop screen is smaller than the projector I only get a fraction of the desktop on the laptop, but it is useable that way.

We did have a problem when we first got the laptop that the projector image was very noisy at high resolution and got worse with the laptop screen turned on; I returned the laptop for repair under warranty and its come back much better.

If your laptop screen is 4 x 3 and the projector resolution matches it (eg 1024 x 768) then cloning should work fine.

The problem with cloning the desktop is that the audience gets to watch you fiddling around on the desktop, looking for the presentations and seeing Explorer and the taskbar. The way I prefer to work is to Extend the desktop onto the projector; in fact for PTE, I set the projector to be the only screen - that forces it to be the primary monitor, and then extend the desktop onto the laptop.

I then drag the taskbar at the base of the screen onto the laptop screen and hide all the screen icons (right click the desktop, select Arrange Icons By, then turn the tick off on Show Desktop Icons). That way the projected image is blank - or only showing the background image of the desktop. I have to remember to switch the laptop to be the primary screen after the meeting - otherwise I can't use the laptop without an external monitor.

At the moment, Iview's MediaPro is the "best" software I've found to run a competition - it does support external monitors, although in a clunky way, but "holding back" images is easy and the colour management is much better than Powerpoint's. The fading between images isn't a patch on PTE though!

I'm trying to pull as much information as possible about running slide shows and competitions using digital projectors for the website, so any reports you have would be very useful!

-Andrew

[JDoran]

Hi Andrew,

I will post once we finally get the equipment and let you know how we get on. At the moment I am tring to avoid a wide screen laptop for the reasons you mention. Problem is that so many of the laptops that meet our other requirements are both wide screen and high resolution and we keep getting pushed in that direction. Doubt the budget will stretch to a projector to match that type of laptop.

Very hopeful that we can come up with a competition process but until we get the kit it is very difficult to establish what will work. Will let you know if we come up with something feasible.

Jane

[Ken Cox]

AN ARTICLE HERE THAT MAY BE OF INTEREST

http://windowssecrets.com/comp/060216/

Run 2 external monitors off 1 VGA port

ken

[barrygordon]

I am new to PTE but not new to the PC/Laptop/Display world. In my Home theater I use a PC to control it and to present certain information on a 20" 4:3 LCD monitor configured at 1024x768. the PC has a villageTronics graphics card (VTbook, PCMCIA cardbus device) installed ina PCMCIA slot. This adapter allows for DVI out (also has a DVI to VGA adapter) and is a true second dsisplay on the PC. Its resolution does not have to be the same as the main display. In fact on my system the secondary display is configured for HiDef TV at 1280x720 60 hz with 32 bits of color depth.

Writing to coordinates starting 1024,0 and extending to coordinates (1024+1280,720) puts data on the second display from a programming standpoint.

Many newer apps understand the concept of a second monitor. There are API's in windows to allow a program to determine then number of monitors, the coordinates of each, the resolutions and the color depths.

It would be great if the PTE system allowed on the Project options/screen dialog a way to specify the monitor (display) to use with a default to the primary display at run time if only one is installed on the system it is running on. Perhaps the best way would be to have a command line parameter for the exe to indicate the monitor it is to run on or the screen coordinates (and display properties if necessary) to use for the running of the exe.