Urmas
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Posts posted by Urmas
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It would be fine if you could make a suggestion what to do (I have made one). As I said above, color management on the fly would be bad for the performance.
Regards,
jt
Your suggestion was to convert images to particular monitor profile. It is cumbersome workaround and can be used only by yourself. You need a source project with 16-bit ProPhoto RGB images (not supported by the PTE at the moment) or if you are not that kind of purist, Adobe RGB will do (although my cheap LV8320 projector can display better yellows that Adobe RGB). Then each time you have to convert all images to destination color profile for particular environment. It is a workaround but only for yourself. Imagine Photoshop or other image editor not being color managed and having suggestions endlessly convert your images to particular device profile... It will end up in total mess.
Imagine you have made an exe to be distributed and used in schools as educational material. And some schools have knowledgeable IT specialist and they have calibrated projectors. There is no way to convert images but why should they be punished? The only solution is to add hotkey to open corresponding menu to set color management settings. And/or you can set any software to check and use operation system color management settings. That's why I made suggestion to PTE developers - implement color management.
During its development PTE has been always a resource demanding software with clear dedication to high quality presentations. For a while it had even two options - with or without hardware acceleration. On less powerful computers you could not use particular features. If the color management on the fly could affect some animations, just add two options like earlier - these features can be color managed, and these can't. The users can make their decisions. I can survive with a bit less bells and whistles in return for accurate colors. Or to upgrade hardware like earlier days.
Actually I doubt, that color management implementation has that large impact on performance. Let Igor tell us his opinion.
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Color management means, that in the process of displaying particular media, both, the input media color space (image or video file color profile) and output device calibration profile (screen or projector color capabilities) are taken into account. Correspondingly the best available possibilities and capabilities to show color information are analyzed and used (on a fly). And the image on the monitor or screen is as correct as possible under the particular presentation environment.
Today the color management is a useful feature in multimedia software. Some have it, some not. Tomorrow it is the must feature defining which product survives and which does not. As simple as that.
So far PTE has been excellent product and its capabilities of high quality transitions and animations are state of art. Introducing style features recently has been long waited valuable and useful feature. No complaints whatsoever. Hats down from Igor's team. I have been happy PTE user for years. And I am sure, they can incorporate color management into next PTE release. I hope color management is on top of their ToDo list.
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Dear jt49 and cjdnzi,
and most of all, dear Igor!
Color management means, that in the process of displaying particular media, both, the input media color space (image or video file color profile) and output device calibration profile (screen or projector color capabilities) are taken into account. Correspondingly the best available possibilities and capabilities to show color information are analyzed and used (on a fly). And the image on the monitor or screen is as correct as possible under the particular presentation environment.
The world is not perfect. It is the common myth, that computer displays show full sRGB. No, it is not the case. Even today the average computer (especially laptop) screen or average classroom projector rarely is capable to show 100% sRGB colors. Just default color management, built into Windows operating system assumes default sRGB input. The output colors are as diverse as is the list of computer screens and projectors. And majority of users don't know or don't care.
However, knowledgeable users know, how to use color management and how to get the best possible and repeatable results when displaying images. And to get best possible results, we must use color management even when our images are in sRGB color space. Not to talk about Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB.
Maybe 10 years ago, the Adobe RGB monitors and projectors were extremely expensive. Used rarely even in professional world in well paid projects. Today you can buy Adobe RGB capable devices for the reasonable price. In 2012 I paid for the PA241w wide gamut monitor less money than I paid for for the Apple Cinema Display (sRGB) in 2007. Adobe RGB is not as bad, as Ken Rockwell stated in 2006. In 2009 Ken Rockvell also stated, that shooting raw does not give any reasonable benefits over jpg.
Today the color management is a useful feature in multimedia software. Some have it, some not. Tomorrow it is the must feature defining which product survives and which does not. As simple as that.
So far PTE has been excellent product and its capabilities of high quality transitions and animations are state of art. Introducing style features recently has been long waited valuable and useful feature. No complaints whatsoever. Hats down from Igor's team. I have been happy PTE user for years. And I am sure, they can incorporate color management into next PTE release. I hope color management is on top of their ToDo list.
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I would like to save the set of properties of objects from "Objects and animation" window as a (custom) style. And then apply the same (or another) saved style to a new object. Like text in editors users can define their own set properties as a style and then reuse it or change the style and all objects with the same style change as well.
At the moment the templates feature or simple copy and paste enables to clone the same set of properties and replacing text and/or images applies the same properties to a new object.
It would be real benefit being able to edit the style and correspondingly change the properties of all objects with the same style in the same slideshow or (re)use the same styles in another slideshow. For example, I create an educational slideshow with explanatory text appearing on slides. However, after completing the slideshow, It appears, that there is need to change lets say font or fine tune some animations of all text. Or there appears need to fine tune some animation properties of picture (video) objects on several slides. Some of such tasks can be done with editing the pte text file directly. Some changes are difficult of impractical in this way.
Having possibility to create, edit and apply styles when seeing it on monitor, would be really helpful.
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I see, that this thread has a lot of misunderstanding going on. I see, that PTE really needs to incorporate color management (being aware and taking into account color profiles of images and output devices). At the moment we have workaround using sRGB (as default) profile in images.
However, modern (wide gamut) monitors and projectors are capable to display full Adobe RGB gamut already. Using only sRGB color gamut is becoming disadvantage.
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Igor, my main concern is that the 64-bit version of Sony Vegas Pro cannot open the avi file produced by 32-bit PTE - which for me means I can't have a 64-bit workflow and I have to use the slower 32-bit version of Sony Vegas Pro. All the other software I use now has a 64-bit version except PTE.
Haven't you tried to convert PTE video output to another format, usable in Sony Vegas Pro? There are many video converters available.
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I'll strongly second to that. Wide gamut devices are already here.
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Video? I have been editing video for over 30 years, not professionaly but as a very fussy amateur. Using editing programs from Pinnacle to Elements. You need huge horspower, massive storage and at the time when lots of people having issues even to play the Rubic's Cube and JPD's show seamlesly, what you think will happen when video is added, unless it is seriously compressed.
Take the video and use a newer version of video editing program ( under $150.00) that can edit and output to HD 1080, import your stills, there you have multiple audio track and 3D FX. All in a neet package.
Yes, it is possible to use some video editing software and put together stills and video already now. However, if you use PTE to show a still image for 5 seconds, it results in file size of just that one image file plus few lines of commands. It you use video to show the same image for 5 seconds, it results 5*25 (or 24 or 30 depending on your output frame rate and resolution) times the size of the image.
It means, if you need to use 20 seconds of video in 10 minute slideshow you actually result in 10 minute video clip. Here the file size gets unnecessary large and ability to integrate still images with video without rendering still images to video stream is of real importance and real space saver.
Still images are here to enable a viewer to see high quality details, to go into the picture. Video is to show movement. Being a nature photographer I realize the importance of both and really wait for the possibility to integrate still images with video in PTE. Hope it can be done.
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With the inclusion of video capabilities info DSLR-s soon we will be able to take a photo and consequently record a short video clip. Consider following slideshow: nice butterfly on photo suddenly starts moving and after some seconds butterfly flies away. And after that video transits into still photo and slideshow continues until maybe next movie clip. I think, here we have many interesting possibilities for innovative slideshows.
Here follows the idea: how about the possibility to include video objects together with jpg-s into the slideshow?
Urmas
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Tested Beta 5 (Vista Ultimate) and everything seemed OK. Like the new features. Thanks, Igor!
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Seems, that solution provided by ATI does not solve all problems. I have laptop from Twinhead Durabook series (2 year old) and a new ATI driver says "Hardware not compatible". Although it has Mobility Radeon 9600/9700. Meanwhile future gamma fix provided by Igor in PTE worked fine and restored calibration profile for the show. So, I will probably have to wait until new release of PTE with ATI gamma fix.
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Profile fix works fine on ATI Mobility Radeon 9600/9700 series.
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There is often need to make same slideshow for different language audience. With present PTE I have to make separate slideshows for each language. That actually consumes space and text has to be edited newly for each presentation. It would be real space-saver and time-saver to have the ability to create different sets of text for same slideshow and to switch between them during presentation. Something like using subtitles on DVD but being able to define position and style for text objects on each ślide.
Urmas
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Does anyone have anything to say about this graphics card that I am thinking of putting into a new desktop
512MB GEFORCE 8600GT PCI Express + DVI + TV-OUT
I just bought a new computer with above mentioned Video Card with passive cooling. Vista Aero runs smoothly. And PTE 5 slideshows are just perfect.
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Steve, after upgrading my NVidia video card (7600 GT) and display (23" ACD) my desktop computer calibration works perfectly with PTE 5.0. Still a problem with my laptop ATI card and calibration.
While I do not do photo editing on my laptop, I have this problem only when using video projector used to present the show. Display calibration would be meaningless for video projector anyway. On the other hand, modern projectors have many opportunities to have "internal calibration" via menu.
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Urmas,
It was very difficult to realize this behaviour as in v4.48. Due to Pan/Zoom effects. I can't promiss that we will able make it as earlier in the next v5.1
Will wait for that. Maybe initially would be easier to make backward transition work when no animations are used with the slide. I need such effect often when giving lectures about photography. When comparing photos with different settings with each other, it is very nice to move forward and backward to show show what changes happened. And here I do not need any animations.
Urmas
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Manual transition question.
In old (4.48) version when I change slides manually forward or backward during show, same transition effect is applied to both directions. For example I mostly use Fade option. In ver 4.48 both, forward change and backward change is with fade effect.
In ver. 5, transition effect is applied only to forward change. Forward change is fade, but when I go backward, transition is simple quick transition. Is this caused by limitations if new engine or could ver. 5 backward transition to be made act as in ver 4?
Urmas
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Now instead zero time of a slide you should set "Stop at the end of this slide" option.
Yes, this is much better and clearer option. Thanks, Igor!
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You can press Ctrl-A in Slide list to select all slides, then click "Customize slide" button and choose "Stop at the end of a slide". Click OK. And every slide will wait for key press to go to a next slide.
I could manage manual control of changing slides by setting slide duration to 0 and checking "Permit control of the show using keyboard"
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When creating slideshow it would be really time-saving feature, when one could define styles for text, slides etc. It means, when creating show, one could easily change all text attributes and animations on all slides just editing once particular style. Although slides usually require individual approach for animations, there would still be many cases when applying same animation style for all slides (or two-three styles for different parts of slideshow) would make work a lot easier. Would it be possible?
Urmas
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Sensor brush works excellent for me. (http://www.visibledust.com/)
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ATI/AMD webpage states, that new drivers have been released. Igor, do you know something about solving color management issues?
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Urmas,
p.s. according unofficial letter of a person from ATI, they plan to fix this problem with gamma also in Windows XP, but as I understood it will be available when they finished works on drivers for Windows Vista (as their primary goal now).
That would be really nice from them since XP is still quite capable and upgrading to Vista simply because of that would be not very reasonable. At least in the moment.
But I will look at my older drivers as well since I do not use neither my laptop or desktop for 3D games.
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Urmas,
ATI said me that their drivers for Windows Vista will use unified gamma settings for desktop and for DirectX. So there will be no problem with slide shows.
You told, that since 2004 drivers for ATI video cards don't support Windows Color Management in fullscreen Direct3D mode. What happens, when when I downgrade my driver to before-2004-version let's say driver released in 2003? What do I loose and what do I gain?
Urmas
Colour Management
in General Discussion
Posted
Actually I think, the impact on performance would not be that large if at all. The color aware software knows (reads) the source profiles of the images and videos. When rendering final image to be displayed through color managed OS, all the software has to do, is to pass that profile information over to OS. The OS now accomplishes necessary conversion on the fly as the pixel values are sent through the video card to the monitor.
The only problem I see, could be users mixing images/videos having too large diversity of different profiles. But when compiling slideshow, PTE can warn users in case of too many profiles or missing profiles. Just like it does excellent job checking videos and offering conversion options.