Movie Codec

[RobertAlbright]

At 1920x1080 px resolution, the image quality of PTE exe.files on large screens (we've gone up to 16 feet wide) is superb. I'm using a Canon 5D Mark 2 shooting in the MOV format at 1920x1080px Full HD H.264, Audio is recorded as Linear PCM. The MOV files play OK dropped straight into PTE but, of course, unedited it's a mess. So I edit in Sony Vegas before inserting them into PTE and have already sent a sample to Igor. He is making changes to PTE Beta based on output('export') problems arising with some of the HD codecs used by Vegas.

However in this enquiry I'm really wanting to know if there's an HD format which works well in PTE when combined with stills. Full HD is required as there is no drop-off in image quality when the production switches between stills and video. Is there a consensus about what HD video codec and file extension works best in PTE - in terms of image quality and ease of editing ? I know there will be many options, but can we settle on one as a default standard?

[davegee]

http://www.picturest...cturestoexe-70/

This might help?

DG

[RobertAlbright]

http://www.picturest...cturestoexe-70/

This might help?

DG

Thanks, Dave, this note by Igor is helpful information.

Do you use Full HD 1920x1080px? - I'm not convinced by Igor's use of 1280x720px, it's not standard format Full HD. 16:9 is the standard aspect ratio for TV, computer monitors, cinema films and as specified in the Canon 5D Mark 2 (the DSLR most used in professional film production). At Wantage we've been using 1920x1080px for several years in AV productions - still images + soundtrack. When mixing stills with video, please let's use the same format and aspect ratio.

Do you actually edit your video files in PTE or in a video editing program? If the latter, what codec+file extension when inserting into PTE?- for example, there are several MPEG2 file extensions.

[davegee]

Robert,

I don't do a lot with video as such but in order to keep abreast of what is going on in PTE I tried to insert an MOV file out of a NIKON compact a while ago and found that it would not work. Igor sorted this for me and MOV files (MPEG2?) out of Nikon L2 Compact Cameras now work OK.

I have also inserted H.264 MPEG4 files created in PTE as a trial and these worked OK.

The said H.264 files are what I normally use to present shows (from a memory key) via the Media Player in my HDTV.

Igor explained his reasoning recently for using 1280x720. I can't say that I followed it closely but I'm willing to bet that if Igor says there's not much difference then that's the case.

I intend to try 1280x720 vs 1920x1080 in the near future and I'll report back.

I can, however, give you my opinion that a 1920x1080 H.264 MPEG4 Video played through the Media Player of my HDTV is not as good as the corresponding EXE played from my laptop into my HDTV via an HDMI connection.

You raise an interesting point about mixing stills and video in PTE - Will they work OK on ALL computers?

There was a time not too long ago when 1920x1200 was being proposed as the "BEST" format but I think that we are over that and anything that fits into the 1920x1080 "frame" is now OK.

Like yourselves we adopted the 1920x1080 projector a few years ago in Wales and we haven't regretted it!

DG

[RobertAlbright]

Robert,

I don't do a lot with video as such but in order to keep abreast of what is going on in PTE I tried to insert an MOV file out of a NIKON compact a while ago and found that it would not work. Igor sorted this for me and MOV files (MPEG2?) out of Nikon L2 Compact Cameras now work OK.

I have also inserted H.264 MPEG4 files created in PTE as a trial and these worked OK.

The said H.264 files are what I normally use to present shows (from a memory key) via the Media Player in my HDTV.

Igor explained his reasoning recently for using 1280x720. I can't say that I followed it closely but I'm willing to bet that if Igor says there's not much difference then that's the case.

I intend to try 1280x720 vs 1920x1080 in the near future and I'll report back.

I can, however, give you my opinion that a 1920x1080 H.264 MPEG4 Video played through the Media Player of my HDTV is not as good as the corresponding EXE played from my laptop into my HDTV via an HDMI connection.

You raise an interesting point about mixing stills and video in PTE - Will they work OK on ALL computers?

There was a time not too long ago when 1920x1200 was being proposed as the "BEST" format but I think that we are over that and anything that fits into the 1920x1080 "frame" is now OK.

Like yourselves we adopted the 1920x1080 projector a few years ago in Wales and we haven't regretted it!

DG

Hi Dave

Video is new to me too but we're going to see much more of it in future in AV 'slide' shows. I've found there are certainly practical limitations in using a DSLR for video, such as needing a tripod for most work, let alone the use of other kit to optimise filming. Despite all that, it's HD video is happening (to my personal knowledge) in both the amateur and professional (stills studio) markets.

Can you clarify what you mean by 'I have also inserted H.264 MPEG4 files created in PTE as a trial and these worked OK'. Do you mean you have shot files in this format and inserted them into PTE? It's the phrase 'created in PTE'which is confusing to me.

I don't think mixing stils and video is a problem per se, it's the processing power needed for HD video which is the problem. I admit that my computer struggles badly with it which may be why Igor's been looking at lower resolution- but, for the reasons given earlier, I don't think that's the way forward. He and we need to crack Full HD video in combination with stills at the same standard size (1920x1080px).

Your comment 'I can, however, give you my opinion that a 1920x1080 H.264 MPEG4 Video played through the Media Player of my HDTV is not as good as the corresponding EXE played from my laptop into my HDTV via an HDMI connection'. Have you incorporated the video into PTE? Surely, when saved as an exe. file in PTE, it plays as an exe? Or is it because it's running at 25fps? Not sure, perhaps someone more knowledgable can tell us?

'Like yourselves we adopted the 1920x1080 projector a few years ago in Wales and we haven't regretted it!' -This is not surprising - we have a lot of Welsh connections through Ian Bateman (who originally recommended 1920x1080px for stills in AV), Maureen and myself, all of whom were involved at the Lampeter Convention a few years ago when it was taken up by the necessary authorities in Wales. I don't know anyone, anywhere whose regretted adopting the Full HD ratio - it provides an overpowering cinematic experience which makes all the 4:3 and other square (in both senses of the word) aspect ratios look really old-fashioned- like those clips from old movies or American TV programmes you sometimes see on the TV.

We seem to be having a semi-private discussion here. Either other forum users are video-savvy and think we're hopeless beginners or we're way ahead of them and they're still deciding if video is a good or a bad thing in AV.

[fh1805]

We seem to be having a semi-private discussion here. Either other forum users are video-savvy and think we're hopeless beginners or we're way ahead of them and they're still deciding if video is a good or a bad thing in AV.

Robert,

I suspect it's the latter. Bearing in mind that the majority of AV workers come from the field of still photography, I suspect that video has, thus far, been just a diversion , if it has been dabbled in at all. Just as photographers have to learn all about the audio side to become AV workers, I think that most AV workers will now have to go through the learning curve to become skilled movie cameramen or camerawomen - with the additional audio challenge of obtaining high-quality perfectly synchronised sound. We will no longer be AV workers (where it was possible for a single individual to do everything); we will have to be become movie-makers - and that will require more skills than a single individual can reasonably be expected to master. Team-working will be the way forward.

I've been monitoring this thread (and other video related threads) with interest. I am by no means a "Luddite" but I struggle to visualize how I might make effective use of video in an AV sequence without turning it into a true video. My preferred subject matter is history - and especially local history. I can visualize that the most likely way of using video would be by including some historic film clips; but that just opens up a whole new can of worms of copyright clearance issues. I do this for fun: do I really want that hassle?

Like Dave, I have created a H264 MP4 video out of PTE (via Create...HD Video for PC and Mac) and then added this as a video object to a slide. On my previous desktop system I did a test run adding two, then three and finally four instances of the video stream onto the same slide (like tiled windows on the PC). The system handled two OK, showed signs of struggling on three and just couldn't hack it with four. Igor suggested converting the video to MPEG2 which I did using the recoder that Xaver (userid = xahu) recommended. This reduced the resource demand to the level where the four-up was running with barely any hint of any problems. I did these tests with both a 1024x768 project and a 1920x1080 project as the source for the video. The playback symptoms were the same which ever I used.

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

Can you clarify what you mean by 'I have also inserted H.264 MPEG4 files created in PTE as a trial and these worked OK'. Do you mean you have shot files in this format and inserted them into PTE? It's the phrase 'created in PTE'which is confusing to me.

To prove that H.264 MPEG4 would run (on my computer) I made an MPEG4 from a PTE show by the usual method and inserted that as a Video file in another PTE show.

Your comment 'I can, however, give you my opinion that a 1920x1080 H.264 MPEG4 Video played through the Media Player of my HDTV is not as good as the corresponding EXE played from my laptop into my HDTV via an HDMI connection'. Have you incorporated the video into PTE? Surely, when saved as an exe. file in PTE, it plays as an exe? Or is it because it's running at 25fps? Not sure, perhaps someone more knowledgable can tell us?

What I meant was that you have two alternatives for playing into a TV - the first is the EXE route and the second is the MPEG4 made from the PTE show route. If you then compare the two I am of the opinion that the EXE is the better in terms of quality (slightly). However the advantage of playing the MPEG4 file via a memory key directly into the TV with no wires outweighs the quality advantage (slightly).

'Like yourselves we adopted the 1920x1080 projector a few years ago in Wales and we haven't regretted it!' -This is not surprising - we have a lot of Welsh connections through Ian Bateman (who originally recommended 1920x1080px for stills in AV), Maureen and myself, all of whom were involved at the Lampeter Convention a few years ago when it was taken up by the necessary authorities in Wales.

I would like to think that almost a year of constant bickering with "Uncle Roy" on my part and visiting demonstrations with him etc had more than a little to do with it. The majority (of the WPF) did not even know what an aspect ratio was or what AR their camera was. I find it hilarious that they opted for the 1920x1080 projector but still stick rigidly to 4:3 (1400x1050) for their competitions, following in the footsteps of the PAGB. However, I wasn't talking about the WPF I was talking about Gwynfa.

We seem to be having a semi-private discussion here. Either other forum users are video-savvy and think we're hopeless beginners or we're way ahead of them and they're still deciding if video is a good or a bad thing in AV.

As I said previously if you get the chance to see Andy Rouse present I think that you'll agree that there is a place for Video in AV.

However sad to say that he is the only one I have seen use it to the level of competence he did even though I think he was using a very simple programme for his MAC. In other words it was the programme that did the clever bits and not necessarily Andy. (Please forgive me Andy if I'm wrong!!).

DG

[RobertAlbright]

Thanks, Peter. I agree with all your points, except that I think a single AV producer will be able in future to take advantage of video-stills combinations. This won't make us 'real' movie producers; as you say, at the moment it needs too much resource, both human and technical, for one person to achieve full-on cinematography.

Nevertheless, at Wantage we are experimenting with AV incorporating HD video - and so far we like what we see. Bear it mind we're like the Wright Brothers in 1904 in this game.

I take your point about Copyright in documentary work - which is one reason I avoid it. (The same copyright issues are often involved when using 3rd party stills in AV productions- a big issue in The PAGB and The RPS). But for artistic work the possibilities are most exciting!

[nobeefstu]

1280x720 is generally accepted as the best all around HD format when considering quality, performance and file size. The 1920x1080 format may provide the best quality ... but its performace demands are much higher for the average users equipment.

Here's a link to give you some basic info:

Microsoft Windows Media - Understanding HD Formats

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/howto/articles/UnderstandingHDFormats.aspx

[RobertAlbright]

Thanks for the link which was well written for the period, January 2004. However things have moved on a lot since then. In practice, we have found that 1920x1080 px is not a constraining factor on modern equipment. The limitations are far more to do with the Codec selected - see my Post 'Video Editor which claims to use PTE video codec' dated 29 June 2011 with replies, including Igor Kokarev.