alrobin

Oops! Yes, I should have said .027 sec.!

Thanks, Bill! It was fun making it, but I think I'll leave the 3D version to someone else!

Well, I did some more digging this AM, and at first found I couldn't reproduce the problem. Then I realized that I had sampled the previous problem files at only 22.05 KHz, not 44.1. So, I re-saved my test ".wav" file (with test 30-ms tone bursts at the end of 3 seconds of silence, and at 1-second intervals after that) as an mp3 22.05 KHz file and loaded it back into Cool Edit. Now, instead of truncation to 1.711 sec, the silence becomes truncated to 2.428 sec., for both Win XP and Win 2000. For 44.1 KHz, the silence is augmented by 0.027 sec. as it is supposed to be. It doesn't seem to matter whether a CBR of 96 or 128 is used, or whether "Mid-Side" and "Intensity" Joint Stereo are checked or not. At least I know now what to watch out for when creating mp3's for use in PTE.

Yes, I think that would be a little more practical, if not quite as portable. However, there are some pretty small "tablet"-style laptops around these days, and this trend will probably continue. Good luck!

Alan, There doesn't seem to be any such capability yet, and it may be some time, if ever, before PTE could be satisfactorily run on PDA's as we know them today, at least. See this thread for some further info: PDA

Hi, Harold, No, it seems to be completely within Cool Edit. When I load back the mp3 file into Cool Edit, it shows up truncated. That's what twigged me to it in the first place - I kept adding 3-seconds of silence (in Win XP), and part of it kept disappearing. So the next time I made a change to the waveform in Cool Edit, I would add it back in, thinking that I needed it for PTE, when all along, PTE was seeing it correctly. I didn't know that it made no difference in PTE as I assumed that I needed to add the silence back on before using the modified file in PTE again. It does seem to be a "Win NT"-based problem, though. It certainly is strange - I will try to do some more experimenting today and let you know the outcome. Thanks again for all your suggestions and patience in helping me sort through this.

Harold, I have just run a quick test on the Win 2K system using 128 Kbps, with both "mid-side joint stero", and "intensity joint stereo", and lo and behold, I get the same addition of silence as you do, instead of a truncation as with 96 kbps. Go figure! I will try a few more tests tomorrow on both Win 2K and on Win XP to see if they react the same way. Thanks for your help!

I finally found time to put together a show for public viewing - it is called "Dempster Highway" and can be seen on Beechbrook until Bill runs out of space and dumps it off. It was put together in PTE version 4.10, beta #8. So, it's a bit of a test - plese let me know of any problems in running it on your pc (and I'll just pass them on to Igor ). I have hesitated creating a show for Beechbrook until now as I didn't have any royalty-free music. While the music used in the show isn't technically completely royalty-free, the source files were MIDI which I modified some, and then converted to .wav and then to .mp3 format using Cool Edit 2000. Hope this satisfies the copyright police! The images are 1024 x 768, so there may be some flicker in some of the fades, particularly on slower machines. They were photographed using Nikon equipment and Fujichrome film, and then scanned. The trip was a long-time dream of ours, and we were happy to be able to finally do it. And to accomplish it without any mishaps worse than the urgent necessity for an expensive brake-job at the end of the trip. Please let me know if you would like any more information, either on the technology or the trip itself. Hope you enjoy it!

Harold, The 100 ms I was referring to is the difference between the discrepancies between CoolEdit vs PTE 4.01 and CoolEdit vs PTE 4.10. This would be equal, then, to the difference between PTE 4.01 and PTE 4.10. I couldn't remember exactly what difference which of you came up with, so that's why I said "approx 100 ms". I'm sorry I made it sound like it was a difference between CoolEdit and PTE. You made it very clear that you find no such difference (except for the .027 sec of silence) as you are using CoolEdit to spot the peaks in the music. I know about the .027 sec of silence, but it only shows up for me in Win Me, unless using the parameters you referred to in the other thread solves the problem. I will make some more tests and let you know. Thanks for your contributions in helping me track down this mystery.

Harold, I am converting from .wav to .mp3 using the following options: CBR, 96 Kbps, 44.1 kHz, Stereo (14.7:1), fast codec, ISO Padding, and writing CRC. No "Joint Stereo", but will try that to see if it makes a difference (not sure what it does, exactly, but it seems that if you did use it, you would only need one, not both). And, it is definitely the same file in both Cool Edit and PTE. I have repeated the process several times, with different files, and consistent results. The sound files I am using were created from MIDI files, played back from an external sound module through my sound card into Cool Edit where they were mixed down, and saved as mp3 files. I don't have the same problem in Win Me, either - just Win XP and Win 2000. I suspect there is some incompatibility between Cool Edit and these other OS's. Maybe when Adobe take over, they will make everything compatible??? All I know is that right now in order to use your method of marking music peaks I would have to test for the difference between Cool Edit and PTE first, and add in a fudge factor, or else go back to the original session and measure from there. (not that this would be that big a deal, but a bit of a nuisance). It's a mystery, though!

Hi, Alan, I presume your last post was directed to me. I consider slide 1 to be just a "dummy" slide, as the time it appears could vary from system to system. So, to be safe, I always use a dark slide and give it a transition time of 20 ms (in other words, a "cut" or in PTE parlance, a "quick" transition). However, in the old PTE, I found I had to leave slide 1 "on-screen" for at least 3 seconds to avoid early glitches. This is apparently not a problem in the new beta as much as it used to be.

Igor, It becomes even more strange! On my laptop (Win XP), when I load back my newly-created mp3 file, the silence truncates to 2.373 sec. (vs. the 1.711 sec. in W2K). However, the music starts at exactly 3.0 sec. in PTE 4.10. vs. 3.1 sec. in W2K. In Win Me, however, there is no truncation from .wav to .mp3, and the music starts correctly at 3.0 sec. in PTE 4.10.

Kurt, I think you'll find that it makes even more economic sense to purchase Cool Edit 2000 now, and then upgrade to Audition for only $99.

Igor, Here is something even more strange. I put the original .wav file in the show and the timing was off by about 100 ms. (just like going back to version 4.01). However, in Cool Edit, with this .wav file the whole 3 sec (2.945 to be exact) of silence shows up on the timeline without truncation. When I save this file as .mp3, and load it back into CoolEdit again, I find the silence once again truncated to 1.7 sec. However, when I use this mp3 file in PTE 4.10 b8, the synchronization is correct. (i.e. the transition to the second slide - the first one which I am synching - matches the starting beat of the music, 3.100 sec along the timeline.) This happens in both Win XP and Win 2000, on two different pc's.

Harold, You're right. No sense at all. I used to attribute it to PTE just taking time to "warm-up". In answer to your questions: 1. What version of PTE are you using? Try using 4.0 so that we don't get into this beta area. - It does the same thing in both (see my reply to Igor in another thread). 2. What do you mean that the "music starts" at 1.7 seconds in Cool Edit? do you mean to say that there is simply silence before that? - Yes, simply silence. 3. What do you mean when you say that the "first slide doesn't start until 3.1 seconds"? I assume that you are talking about PTE... IMX, the first slide always starts with the very beginning of the music file. Where does the number 3.1 come from? - Yes, PTE. However, I should have said "the first slide we have control over on the timeline", which is slide #2. Sorry for the confusion. (I use a dark slide as #1, so wasn't counting it. ) By the way, it too is a "cut", so processing time is minimal. 3.100 sec is where I placed my first transition (not counting the one at the beginning of the show for slide #1). 4. Check the total length of the music. In PTE, that's shown at the bottom of the synch window. In Cool Edit, it will be in the lower right hand corner of th window in the View/Length when you first open the file. - CoolEdit shows it as 10:43.395, and PTE 4.10, b8, at 10:44. The timeline itself is 10:44.6 in length. Please let me know if you have any clues or suggestions.

No, Igor, this discrepancy between my CoolEdit and PTE is present in version 4.01, too. However, it is approx 100 ms different in value, as has already been pointed out by Sam and Harold. In version 4.01 the music starts at 3.0 seconds into the show, and in version 4.10, beta8, it starts at around 3.1 seconds after the start of the show. However, my CoolEdit editor shows the music starting after only 1.711 seconds of silence. This is along the same line as my experience with CoolEdit truncating my mp3 files, so the two phenomena may be related. I'll have to do some testing with .wav files too. I suspect they may react differently.

Hi, Harold, I didn't hear about the arrest of the Russian programmer - it makes no sense at all to do something like that. Companies like that usually get their just desserts in the end. Copyright laws don't make any sense, either, especially as applied to software. And they're becoming even "dumber" all the time. I'm not much in favour of boycotting, though, as a lot of innocent people usually get hurt in the process, including oneself (I did boycott our local cable TV company once, though, for negative-option billing ). Fortunately, satellite service came along and I no longer needed them, anyway.

Yes, I suspect "PhotoImpact" is easier to master than ImageReady, but ImageReady has some pretty awesome capabilities, especially when used as a plug-in with Photoshop. I created a map of Canada on my web site with ImageReady which would have been difficult with just Front Page and Photoshop to work with. You can see it HERE if you're interested. As you probably know, Photoshop 7 has ImageReady bundled in with it. (I think PS 6 had it too.)

Bill, right you are! I didn't explore far enough. I guess SmartSaver is just a photo editor, whereas Photo Impact also has some "slice and dice" web-authoring capabilities similar to Adobe's "Image Ready". They both sound good. It's interesting that all of the articles given as testimonials for SmartSaver are year-2000 vintage.

Just to add some more fuel to the fire, according to Cool Edit 2000, the music for my Dempster show starts at 1.7 seconds, but the first slide doesn't start until 3.1 seconds. I changed it to a "cut", and same thing - the time is off by about 1.4 seconds. So, the time for each cut would have to be "adjusted" by + 1.4 sec!

It seems to be called "Photo Impact" now. (see this web site ). Otherwise, I don't know anything about it. Sounds like a good editor, though, and the price ($80) is right. Edited: Adobe's "Photoshop Elements" is also a bargain, but without some of the features, apparently. See this review in Business Week .

Harold, I see the global adjustment as useful, but only for the purpose of accommodating an insert of silence at the beginning of a show. It's not a high-priority requirement - I would only request it if Igor is going to add in a few milliseconds, anyway, to match up PTE versions. I think other features are more important. I think I see where you are coming from now that you mention setting up the transitions using the waveform. I guess I don't get that precise with my transitions (witness my "Dempster Highway" show, soon to be released ). I do my synchs using the timeline and "trial and error". I can see where you would want something more exact if you had a large number of cuts to sync. Rather than have Igor add 50 ms or subtract 50 ms, for new shows could you not add or subtract 50 ms to the time you see on the timeline? (assuming that the new PTE version timings match the timings set up in the previous versions, of course). I realize this is not the optimum solution in your case, but it would be an out for Igor if he is reluctant to add the 50 ms. I'm wondering, can this be a "granularity" problem? (i.e. a problem with how often PTE either queries the time, or receives an interrupt from the music timing, however it checks on whether a new transition is now required.)

Igor, This feature would be quite useful. Can it be expanded to several "seconds" as well? It would also be useful when adding or deleting a few seconds of silence to the beginning of a show, for example.

Well put, Bill! Man, this thread is getting interesting! Sounds like we are all on virtually the same wavelength on this. Meanwhile, Igor is back in the lab, slaving away to try to make us all happy! Wish we could get Bill Gates' attention this easily!

Hi, Harold, Microsoft do that to me all the time! (my Cubase MIDI sequencer won't run on my laptop under XP, Visual Basic changed courses a few years ago so I can't even run some of my old programs, VBA changed from ADO to DAO (or vice versa), screwing up some of my earlier developments, I can't even save Adjustor in Excel 2000 - have to go back into Excel 97 and save it, even for use under 2000 ???, etc, etc.) However, you are right, ideally and philosophically! The world should be a better place! All software should be backwards-compatible, and all new forms of entertainment players should be compatible with all previous formats (including beta videotapes and 8-track tapes! (I'm Irish - I'm allowed to mix my metaphors! ) But, ideally speaking, I agree that it would be great if new PTE versions are kept as compatible as humanly possible with previous versions, and still continue to progress in terms of new features and ease of operation. As a design goal, I agree with you 100%. I guess I was being more pragmatic than philosophical! Re Cool Edit, yes, 1.1 - 2418 is what I am using, too. I played around with the "Pro" on a free trial basis, and it was pretty impressive. It will rip from a CD, which 2000 won't let me do (at least on my setup), and it will also detach a sound file from an avi file, which is something I had to do to get the sound for one of my shows, and had to have a friend do it with his video software. It has something like 120 different tracks for mixing sounds and music, which could be handy, and a lot more special effects than 2000. I've put my order in for the new "Audition", due out this fall, so will let you know more about it when I get it. It would be nice to have PTE match other sound editors. But, I thought from reading the postings from you and Sam and Igor that the problem was more one of compatibility with previous versions of PTE, and the way PTE reacts to the music, not a difference between Cool Edit and PTE operation. But, maybe I don't understand the issue completely (that's what happens when you take a few days vacation! ) The problem I have with Cool Edit dropping the silence at the front of a piece occurs with an mp3 file which is the result of a mix-down of several .wav files and when I re-load it into "2000" to make an alteration. So, in order to maintain the timing of the music, I have to go back into the original "session" and make any changes there, and re-mix everything. Probably the proper way to do it, anyway.