Presales Questions

[MikeV99]

My goal is to make slideshow DVDs that my family and friends can play on their TVs. Although I currently own Photoshop Elements 5, Photoshop Elements Premiere 3, Lightroom 1.x, and Photoshop CS3 Extended, all of this is quite new and becoming overwhelming.

I have been trying to select an optimal combination of software to accomplish my goals.

I have downloaded Proshow Gold and Producer trial versions.

One can use Photoshop Elements 5 to manage/organize images, edit images, and create slideshows using its slideshow editor. One can also use Photoshop Elements Premiere 3 to create slideshows. Some have suggested using Elements 5 to create basic slideshow structure and then use Elements Premiere 3 to create the final show. I have completed tutorials using these tools.

One can use Lightroom to manage/organize images and do some basic editing. Images are easily passed to CS3 for photographic imaging. Neither of these tools would be used in the creation of a slideshow other than to export the edited images for use with a slideshow editor.

One can use Proshow Producer to accept PSD or DNG files and create a slideshow which can be output in iso format. One then burns the TV DVD using something like Nero Express. I have completed tutorials using these tools as well.

Some have told me that one can do everything one wants to do with Elements & Elements Premiere. Others have suggested that one will very quickly run into limitations with Premiere and will find that Photoshow Gold or Producer offers more control over the production and is easier to use. From my limited trials, the Proshow programs do seem easier and more intuitive.

Even with Proshow, it appears one has a need for Elements. For example, I wanted to insert thought bubbles with text onto an image. I first had to create a psd of a bubble in a layer in Elements and then bring it into Proshow (of course, I could have used Custom Shapes in CS3 to do the same).

On the other hand, I wanted to create a slide that has a magnifying glass moving around it. A copy of it can be seen at photodex (http://www.photodex.com/sharing/viewshow.html?fl=2780634&alb=0). One can do it rather easily with Proshow Producer. It can be done in Elements/Premiere, but it is not as clean and easy.

I am about at the point of thinking that an optimal combination of tools would be Lightroom, CS3, and Proshow Producer.

However, someone suggested that I really needed to take a close look at P2E.

I would guess that P2E could do the layered bubble thing easily? How difficult would it be to use P2E to do the floating magnifying glass example? From reading the manual, P2E cannot input PSD or DNG files. How well does it handle TIFF (always hate to convert to jpg because of the compression loss)? Does it have any image file size limitations for the input files? How well does it burn TV DVDs (quality) - some have suggested that one needs something like Nero or DVDarchitect for DVD burning? If I understand what I have been reading, P2E does not provide random transitions?

Before I download the P2E trial and give it a whirl, would anyone want to offer a comparison of P2E and PSP features, ease of use, support, quality of product, and stability? Obviously, P2E has a cost advantage. I understand this is a P2E forum and expect most to be high on P2E, which is OK. However, any weaknesses?

Thank you for reading a rather long post. I look forward to your objective and subjective thoughts.

Regards,

Mike

[Lin Evans]

Hi Mike,

If you want the moving magnifying glass as demonstrated on the PSP example your best bet is ProShow Producer.

You can't get away from using tools such as Photoshop or similar with any presentation slideshow software if you really want to exploit special effects. There are things which Proshow Producer does that PTE can't do and things which PTE does which Proshow Producer can't do.

The primary benefit of PTE is image quality and value for your money. Producer or Gold can't match the hardware rendered quality of images in your executable slideshows which you get with PicturesToExecute. Depending on your hardware, PTE can give you the absolute ultimate in image quality in your slideshows. Nothing else matches the smoothness of pans, zooms and rotates. You have features like parent/child relationship and off-center rotation with PTE which other presentation slideshow programs don't offer. You have hardware rendering of DVD's - something no other program has. With modern hardware this gives you the ability to create DVD's as much a 400% faster than the other programs including Nero, PSP, PSG, Media@Show, all Adobe products, m-objects, etc. None have hardware rendering.

With PTE you can do unique things in presentation slideshow software such as alter the "Z" axis to give horizontal rotation of an object, rotate an object around the screen rather than on it's own axis and even keep objects upright while rotating, make elipitical orbits of objects, simulate bezier curves, etc. You can custom build your own menus, call and run external executable code from within your slideshow and do a number of things simply not possible with other presentation slideshow software.

PTE does not use "Tiff" files nor at present does it use Photoshop native formats. Frankly you won't want to use Tiff formats in slideshows. They are far too large to run smoothly and it doesn't matter whose software you use. Also I couldn't imagine why anyone would want to use a DNG file in a slideshow. DNG files are simply a way around not having RAW conversion software and are not useful until converted to a standard format such as jpg, bmp or tiff.

The primary advantage to PSP is the ability to include video clips in your slideshow along with still images. You can't do that with PTE. The other advantages are some audio editing capabilities some of which will be in the next version of PTE. PSP also has some ability to adjust image color, brightness, hue, saturation, etc. Most of us around here feel that these features are better done in a dedicated graphics program.

Actually it would be better to ask Photodex about what they feel are the advantages to PSP, etc. If you would like, let me know and I will be glad to show you examples of what PTE can do which PSP can't and you can ask around on the PSP/PSG forums what it can do which PTE can't.

PTE offers you free upgrades for life for the basic product. You get two years of free upgrades for the Video Builder which offers internal DVD authoring.

Check with Photodex about PSP pricing and upgrade policies.

Best regards,

Lin

My goal is to make slideshow DVDs that my family and friends can play on their TVs. Although I currently own Photoshop Elements 5, Photoshop Elements Premiere 3, Lightroom 1.x, and Photoshop CS3 Extended, all of this is quite new and becoming overwhelming.

I have been trying to select an optimal combination of software to accomplish my goals.

I have downloaded Proshow Gold and Producer trial versions.

One can use Photoshop Elements 5 to manage/organize images, edit images, and create slideshows using its slideshow editor. One can also use Photoshop Elements Premiere 3 to create slideshows. Some have suggested using Elements 5 to create basic slideshow structure and then use Elements Premiere 3 to create the final show. I have completed tutorials using these tools.

One can use Lightroom to manage/organize images and do some basic editing. Images are easily passed to CS3 for photographic imaging. Neither of these tools would be used in the creation of a slideshow other than to export the edited images for use with a slideshow editor.

One can use Proshow Producer to accept PSD or DNG files and create a slideshow which can be output in iso format. One then burns the TV DVD using something like Nero Express. I have completed tutorials using these tools as well.

Some have told me that one can do everything one wants to do with Elements & Elements Premiere. Others have suggested that one will very quickly run into limitations with Premiere and will find that Photoshow Gold or Producer offers more control over the production and is easier to use. From my limited trials, the Proshow programs do seem easier and more intuitive.

Even with Proshow, it appears one has a need for Elements. For example, I wanted to insert thought bubbles with text onto an image. I first had to create a psd of a bubble in a layer in Elements and then bring it into Proshow (of course, I could have used Custom Shapes in CS3 to do the same).

On the other hand, I wanted to create a slide that has a magnifying glass moving around it. A copy of it can be seen at photodex (http://www.photodex.com/sharing/viewshow.html?fl=2780634&alb=0). One can do it rather easily with Proshow Producer. It can be done in Elements/Premiere, but it is not as clean and easy.

I am about at the point of thinking that an optimal combination of tools would be Lightroom, CS3, and Proshow Producer.

However, someone suggested that I really needed to take a close look at P2E.

I would guess that P2E could do the layered bubble thing easily? How difficult would it be to use P2E to do the floating magnifying glass example? From reading the manual, P2E cannot input PSD or DNG files. How well does it handle TIFF (always hate to convert to jpg because of the compression loss)? Does it have any image file size limitations for the input files? How well does it burn TV DVDs (quality) - some have suggested that one needs something like Nero or DVDarchitect for DVD burning? If I understand what I have been reading, P2E does not provide random transitions?

Before I download the P2E trial and give it a whirl, would anyone want to offer a comparison of P2E and PSP features, ease of use, support, quality of product, and stability? Obviously, P2E has a cost advantage. I understand this is a P2E forum and expect most to be high on P2E, which is OK. However, any weaknesses?

Thank you for reading a rather long post. I look forward to your objective and subjective thoughts.

Regards,

Mike

[MikeV99]

Thank you for your response. It was very helpful. A couple more questions, if you please.

The primary benefit of PTE is image quality and value for your money. Producer or Gold can't match the hardware rendered quality of images in your executable slideshows which you get with PicturesToExecute.

I can see how this would be beneficial for executables. What benefit does it provide for those viewing slideshows that are on TV DVDs (other than its ability to render much faster)?

You can custom build your own menus, call and run external executable code from within your slideshow ...

Is this true for only executable slideshows or does it carry over when creating a TV DVD?

The primary advantage to PSP is the ability to include video clips in your slideshow along with still images. You can't do that with PTE.

Deluxe comes with Video Builder. What is the purpose of Video Builder, i.e., what do you mean by it offers internal DVD authoring? I assume that it has nothing to do with including video clips in the slideshow. I guess one could use Elements Premiere, but that then becomes another learning curve. Do you anticipate that PTP will ever have that capability?

Check with Photodex about PSP pricing and upgrade policies.

Some unhappy campers about the annual upgrade fees for things that should be fixed in existing versions over at Proshow Enthusiasts.

You mention over there that you also use Gold. Why and when?

Your comments are appreciated. Based on what I have read here and elsewhere I am going to download a trial of PTE and give it a go.

Thanks,

Mike

[Lin Evans]

Thank you for your response. It was very helpful. A couple more questions, if you please.

I can see how this would be beneficial for executables. What benefit does it provide for those viewing slideshows that are on TV DVDs (other than its ability to render much faster)?

Hi Mike,

No real benefit for DVD's other than speed of rendering. The limits of quality on DVD are imposed by the NTSC and PAL resolutions so essentially all DVD quality is very close among various presentation slideshow softwares.

Is this true for only executable slideshows or does it carry over when creating a TV DVD?

Primarily only for executable slideshows as far as running executable code, etc. Menus in the optional Video Builder can be customized to your own liking and have numerous features such as totally adjustable drop shadows for text - the option of using your own images for the background and such.

Deluxe comes with Video Builder. What is the purpose of Video Builder, i.e., what do you mean by it offers internal DVD authoring? I assume that it has nothing to do with including video clips in the slideshow. I guess one could use Elements Premiere, but that then becomes another learning curve. Do you anticipate that PTP will ever have that capability?

Originally, PTE only created AVI files and used external software such as Ulead Movie Factory to actually burn the DVD's. Video Builder was an addition to PTE allowing users to burn DVD's, make MPEG's and AVI's directly from within PTE. It's a seamless module but an option and definitely suggested if you want to make DVD's with PTE. It allows you to add AVI, MPEG, etc., movie clips to the DVD but not as an integral part of the PTE slideshow. In the future PTE "may" have video clip drop-in, but right now the differential in image quality because of hardware rendering in the main PTE show would be so great that it would not be something useful for other than DVD's or other low resolution output. As HD resolutions (1080p, etc.) become more popular this may change and the program "may" have this ability in the future.

Some unhappy campers about the annual upgrade fees for things that should be fixed in existing versions over at Proshow Enthusiasts.

You mention over there that you also use Gold. Why and when?

I use PSG when I need to drop in video clips and othewise use only PTE for the much higher quality executable output.

Your comments are appreciated. Based on what I have read here and elsewhere I am going to download a trial of PTE and give it a go.

If you have the time, go to the tutorials section of the forum and download the PDF Users Guide which was written for 5.0 and will be updated again on the release of 5.2. Also you may want to download the AVI tutorials from the PTE Made Easy series to see some of the unique features for PTE. You may also want to visit theDom's website where there are numerous samples and examples of various techniques readily available.

Best regards,

Lin

Thanks,

Mike

[MikeV99]

If you have the time, go to the tutorials section of the forum and download the PDF Users Guide which was written for 5.0 and will be updated again on the release of 5.2. Also you may want to download the AVI tutorials from the PTE Made Easy series to see some of the unique features for PTE. You may also want to visit theDom's website where there are numerous samples and examples of various techniques readily available.

Got the user guide. I had also downloaded pteguide81707pdf.zip which contains something called jeffnew.pdf. I don't remember from where I downloaded it, or the difference between that and PicturesToExe_v50_UserManual_en.pdf.

Tons of stuff out there. Could you please direct me to a couple with source that would be a good start for creating video DVDs.

Thank you.

Mike

[Lin Evans]

Hi Mike,

I'm not sure whether there is anything devoted to creating DVD's but I can give you a quick run through. Create your slideshow with PTE and test it using the Preview. Once you are happy with it click on the "Video" button at the bottom of the Main Screen then from there click on "Burn DVD". From the next screen negotiate to the folder where you have the PTE file and it will appear as a large thumbnail in the top portion of the screen. Either click, hold and drag it to the bottom or click to select then click on "Add".

Next click on the "Project Options" and choose between NTSC (U.S.) or PAL format. For now take the other defaults as far as bitrates, etc., and click on "O.K".

Next be sure there is a check mark in the block beside "Create Menu" then click on "Next"

Choose a template from those available, click on title, etc., and change to the font text you wish and such. For now use one of the templates rather than your own background image. After you have the text and template like you want it click "Next".

On the screen which appears you have the option to select whether and where you which to create an mpeg2 file, whether you want ISO images and a DVD folder and where you wish theim. For now I would ignore these and just click to put a check beside "Burn DVD" then be sure you have a DVD in your burner and that the program has identified your hardware (usually automatic) then click "Start"

That all there is to the basics. Hopefully, later this week I will create a tutorial on some more esoteric aspects of creating a DVD menu such as using your own backgrounds, etc.

Best regards,

Lin

Got the user guide. I had also downloaded pteguide81707pdf.zip which contains something called jeffnew.pdf. I don't remember from where I downloaded it, or the difference between that and PicturesToExe_v50_UserManual_en.pdf.

Tons of stuff out there. Could you please direct me to a couple with source that would be a good start for creating video DVDs.

Thank you.

Mike

[jfa]

...<snip>...On the other hand, I wanted to create a slide that has a magnifying glass moving around it. A copy of it can be seen at photodex (http://www.photodex.com/sharing/viewshow.html?fl=2780634&alb=0). One can do it rather easily with Proshow Producer. ...<snip>...

Hi Mike, if my memory severs me correctly, (and at my age that is not always the case), I have seen this function in PTE as a template that can be downloaded from the DOMs site.

Have a look there:-

http://www.thedom.fr/share/portal.php

Also one of the best advantages PTE has is this forum and the people here. The level of friendly help here is unsurpassed anywhere else.

I am about at the point of thinking that an optimal combination of tools would be Lightroom, CS3, and Proshow Producer.

My "optimal combination of tools" for creating AVs is Photoshop CS3 (and bridge), CoolEdit (now Adobe Audition) and PTE. I make executable PC/Digital Projector shows and the occasionally TV DVD. Many others have been tried but I decided on the above for the quality of the end product, flexibility and a simple work-flow, (the less applications involved for this the better).

[Barry Beckham]

Mike

I hope you don't mind me saying this, but I think you are making a classic error here.

You say you currently own Photoshop Elements 5, Photoshop Elements Premiere 3, Lightroom 1.x, and Photoshop CS3 Extended, all of this is quite new and becoming overwhelming and to that you have added Proshow Gold and Producer trial versions.

I am not surprised that lot are overwhelming and your biting off far more than anyone can chew. In an effort to find the absolute best combination of software you run a real risk of missing the best of all of them. There are not enough hours in the day to get to grips with that lot.

Watch some of the slide shows on offer from this site and ask those authors whose work you admire what combination of software they use. Start from there and you will not go too far wrong. You can then move onto other software for particular reasons later.

However, ask yourself this question. Why do the most able photographers and AV enthusiasts gravitate to Photoshop and PicturesToExe. Could it be that its because they are considered the best?

[MikeV99]

Hi Mike, if my memory severs me correctly, (and at my age that is not always the case), I have seen this function in PTE as a template that can be downloaded from the DOMs site.

Have a look there:-

http://www.thedom.fr/share/portal.php

Your memory is working great. He has it as a for sale template.

My "optimal combination of tools" for creating AVs is Photoshop CS3 (and bridge), CoolEdit (now Adobe Audition) and PTE. I make executable PC/Digital Projector shows and the occasionally TV DVD. Many others have been tried but I decided on the above for the quality of the end product, flexibility and a simple work-flow, (the less applications involved for this the better).

Audition is pricey; Soundbooth is a little more bearable. If I need an audio editor I may be able to get by with Audacity which is free. Your use of just CS3 and PTE is what I am hoping to accomplish, get down to a simple set of tools.

Thank you for your advice.

Mike

[Lin Evans]

Hi Mike,

Just a quick observation. I don't believe the magnifying glass Dom has is the same. It isn't a moving magnifying glass which "magnifies" . I don't believe that feature is possible with PTE right now. I'll have to check but I think the one you see in the PSP demo requires a feature not yet available in PTE but may be soon.

Best regards,

Lin

Your memory is working great. He has it as a for sale template.

Audition is pricey; Soundbooth is a little more bearable. If I need an audio editor I may be able to get by with Audacity which is free. Your use of just CS3 and PTE is what I am hoping to accomplish, get down to a simple set of tools.

Thank you for your advice.

Mike

[MikeV99]

I hope you don't mind me saying this, but I think you are making a classic error here.

Ah, but just think of the learning experience!

You say you currently own Photoshop Elements 5, Photoshop Elements Premiere 3, Lightroom 1.x, and Photoshop CS3 Extended, all of this is quite new and becoming overwhelming and to that you have added Proshow Gold and Producer trial versions.

I am not surprised that lot are overwhelming and your biting off far more than anyone can chew. In an effort to find the absolute best combination of software you run a real risk of missing the best of all of them. There are not enough hours in the day to get to grips with that lot.

Watch some of the slide shows on offer from this site and ask those authors whose work you admire what combination of software they use. Start from there and you will not go too far wrong. You can then move onto other software for particular reasons later.

However, ask yourself this question. Why do the most able photographers and AV enthusiasts gravitate to Photoshop and PicturesToExe. Could it be that its because they are considered the best?

I started out with Elements/Premiere. I got a good deal on Lightroom/CS3 and it had some feature not available in Elements. I had thought of keeping Elements for creating my slide shows, but noticed other products easier to use and with more features. I thought I would need Lightroom for photo management, but am coming to the conclusion I can do all that I really need to do with Bridge. Lightroom has the advantage of not changing the original photo when adding tags and so on. However, I am starting to think that it really does not matter. I am still not sure how I want to manage the image formats. For camera raw I most likely will save as psd or dng. For jpeg I can do the same or save as tiff. Of course, when I prepare files for input to PTE I suspect I would need to convert them to jpeg.

I started out playing with printing, but then decided that having a bunch of prints laying around or on the wall was not going to be a good long term approach. I have tons of prints and 35mm slides that I want eventually to convert to digital images. Having a bunch of raw photos on a DVDs does not seem reasonable either. After all, my kids are going to have to figure out what to do with all this stuff after I am gone. So, my strategy is first to create TV DVDs of the best and most interesting images. For the ones not quite as interesting, but that I would like to keep, I would like to be able to archive them, but have an index of thumbnails that one could click on to see a specific image. So, for the first goal, I need slideshow and TV DVD software. Many folks on different forums suggested I look at Proshow. I got the PSG/PSP trials and decided PSP would be needed to do some of the keyframe stuff. During my testing a couple of folks suggested that I consider PTE as well. So that brings me here.

I have downloaded the PTE trial and am redoing the tutorials I did with the other products to see how I would do them in PTE. I have noticed that PTE really focuses on the slideshow portion and leaves other actions to other applications (not saying this is bad, just that it is the way it works). For example, to insert a blank slide in PSP is just a click whereas in PTE I had to go to CS3, create the blank slide, and then add it in PTE. However, thus far PTE is doing everything that I did with the other apps. I need to finish my test tutorial and then play around with talk bubbles and a moving magnifying glass to see how or if that would/could be done.

A previous post in this thread suggested that Bridge/CS3, Cooledit, and PTE would be a pretty complete toolbox. I don't need major audio mixing just yet, but would be happy if I could narrow it done to Bridge/CS3 and PTE.

Mike

[MikeV99]

Just a quick observation. I don't believe the magnifying glass Dom has is the same. It isn't a moving magnifying glass which "magnifies" . I don't believe that feature is possible with PTE right now. I'll have to check but I think the one you see in the PSP demo requires a feature not yet available in PTE but may be soon.

The demo from Dom definitely does not magnify. I was going to look at his approach and the one within PSP to see what technique was used. I do not remember how the magnification effect was accomplished. IRC, I managed to do it in Elements as well.

If you are correct, what feature needs to be added to PTE to accomplish that task?

Mike

[peakhill]

.............................................

Before I download the P2E trial and give it a whirl, would anyone want to offer a comparison of P2E and PSP features, ease of use, support, quality of product, and stability? Obviously, P2E has a cost advantage. I understand this is a P2E forum and expect most to be high on P2E, which is OK. However, any weaknesses?

Thank you for reading a rather long post. I look forward to your objective and subjective thoughts.

Regards,

Mike

For what its worth, I have tried to compare some of the features of PTE and PSP on my web site

http://www.peakhill.btinternet.co.uk/digit...dio_visual.html

I have deliberately not reached a conclusion as so much depends on what you want to do.

Personally, I use both programmes. ProShow tends to be my choice for family shows which often include video and PTE is my choice for competition work.

regards

Keith

[MikeV99]

For what its worth, I have tried to compare some of the features of PTE and PSP on my web site

http://www.peakhill.btinternet.co.uk/digit...dio_visual.html

I have deliberately not reached a conclusion as so much depends on what you want to do.

Personally, I use both programmes. ProShow tends to be my choice for family shows which often include video and PTE is my choice for competition work.

Wow, that was a lot of work and thought. I assume by competition work you mean environments where you wish to execute an EXE on a PC as opposed to running a DVD show on a TV DVD reader?

Thank you for a very well thought out analysis. It was very helpful.

Mike