Ed Overstreet Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Just thought we would pass along an experience with using ver 5.6 to create a Menu page with the 3D Acceleration left on… I realize the issue of hardware acceleration has been discussed recently in another thread http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10661&st=0however I think the following deserves a separate thread, as it is advice to users who want to create a “menu show” such as found in the attachment.Recently in our club, our annual AV showcase at our annual Open House was disrupted because a menu show, used to launch 24 sample shows from members, had been created by a relatively new PTE user who didn’t know to (nor how to) turn 3D Hardware Acceleration OFF for a menu show. Instead, the user accepted the Project Options default, which has that setting ON.The result was a shambles. About half the shows wouldn’t launch, or the video launched “behind the menu” and didn’t appear on-screen, though you could hear the music. The person running the show was unable to fix the problem on the fly. In the end, the person presenting ran those few shows that did launch normally, kept track of those that didn’t, then at the end of the evening re-ran the missed shows manually through Windows Explorer. Not as flashy or professional for the audience, but at least the shows ran from Windows Explorer.After some extensive debugging of the menu show, JRR (another PTE Forum member) and I have proved to our mutual satisfaction that the sole problem with that menu show was the 3D Hardware Acceleration setting. Turn it OFF, and every button on the menu functions as it should (the menu screen clears, the show runs, and at the end of the show the menu screen returns). Turn it ON, and you have CHAOS, from the master-of-ceremonies’ perspective. The audience wasn’t impressed, nor was our colleague. The problem is random at times, but always there will be problems with some shows if the Hardware Acceleration is turned ON.We’ve verified this problem on four separate computers. For those interested, I’m attaching a sample menu show (not the one used that particular night, but it exhibits the same behaviour under Hardware Acceleration). Go into Slide Three’s O&A window, go to the Objects list, change the Common-tab file references for a couple of buttons to several of your own EXE shows on your hard drive, and create the EXE menu show and launch it. The current configuration has Hardware Acceleration OFF; when you run the menu show and click on the relevant buttons, the referenced shows should run normally. Verify this. Now go back into PTE and, changing nothing else, turn Hardware Acceleration ON, re-create the EXE menu show, re-check the button launches and look at what happens. It isn’t fun.This posting is a heads-up to those doing, or thinking of doing, Menu Shows using ver 5.6. We’ve verified this issue in version 5.6 and some earlier 5.x versions. None of us “do” beta versions, so we don’t know whether the current betas will have this problem.We believe the proposal to do away with the option of the 3D being ON or OFF has been shelved. To our mind the 3D ON/OFF Option must always be there.Menu Show A.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fh1805 Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Ed,It strikes me that this user was naive in the extreme. They cannot have even attempted to test the menu prior to showing it on the night. I guess they just didn't read any of your excellent advice on your club's website!regards,Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goddi Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Ed...Just so I understand this problem correctly, when a PTE show is made that uses a Menu.pte to run other PTE shows, the Menu.pte must be created with the 3D Hardware Acceleration OFF. But...it is OK if the slideshows that the Menu.pte runs are created with 3D Hardware Acceleration ON. Do I have this right?Thanks...Gary=========================...Recently in our club, our annual AV showcase at our annual Open House was disrupted because a menu show, used to launch 24 sample shows from members, had been created by a relatively new PTE user who didn’t know to (nor how to) turn 3D Hardware Acceleration OFF for a menu show. Instead, the user accepted the Project Options default, which has that setting ON.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fh1805 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Gary,Yes, you have that right. As I understand the technology, only one program can have total control of the 3D Hardware Acceleration feature on the graphics card. If two programs try to take control (a Menu squence and one of the sequences driven off that Menu, say) the the results are "unpredictable" and almost always totally unacceptable to the viewer.If you want animation on the Menu and in the driven sequences, you must then call each driven sequence using the "Run Slideshow with Return" option. This technique uses just one copy of PTE's graphics driving routines and so does not cause any conflicts for control of the 3D Hardware Acceleration feature. The downside is that all sequences (Menu and driven) have to be created using the exact same version of PTE. Having now established a workflow to handle this last restriction, I don't find this a problem.regards,Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xahu34 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 .... The downside is that all sequences (Menu and driven) have to be created using the exact same version of PTE. Having now established a workflow to handle this last restriction, I don't find this a problem ....Peter,I don't think that using the same version of PTE can be regarded as a solution for club events etc., not even in a PTE monoculture. Furthermore, there exist at least 3 other AV tools which make heavy use of DirectX, and in Austria, Germany (and perhaps in Belgium and the Netherlands, as well) the users of PTE are a minority. Regards,Xaver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goddi Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Peter,Ok...another clarification needed.You say, "If you want animation on the Menu and in the driven sequences...". When you refer to 'animation,' do you mean that the Menu has components that are activated by items you have set using the Animation Tab? I can see that a Menu can be created using only the Property Tab and the Common Tab, without getting into the Animation Tab. If this is true, then we don't have to worry about using the same PTE version in the creation of the Menu and its driven shows if we don't use the Animation Tab in the Menu?I understand that when you adjust the size and location of an object (without actually getting into the Animation Tab), the Pan, Zoom and Rotate settings will change in the Animation Tab. But I don't consider this as 'Animation'. When you talk about 'Animation', I am thinking you only mean using Keyframes??So I think the question is, what do you mean my 'animation' that would use the 3D Hardware Accelerator feature, in relation to this Menu problem.??And, if the Menu has more than one driven show in its screen, you can only usethe 'Run Slideshow with Return' option (in the Common Tab/Action on Mouse Click) to be able to return to the Menu to make another selection from its menu? Is there any other way?Thanks...Gary==============================Gary,Yes, you have that right. As I understand the technology, only one program can have total control of the 3D Hardware Acceleration feature on the graphics card. If two programs try to take control (a Menu squence and one of the sequences driven off that Menu, say) the the results are "unpredictable" and almost always totally unacceptable to the viewer.If you want animation on the Menu and in the driven sequences, you must then call each driven sequence using the "Run Slideshow with Return" option. This technique uses just one copy of PTE's graphics driving routines and so does not cause any conflicts for control of the 3D Hardware Acceleration feature. The downside is that all sequences (Menu and driven) have to be created using the exact same version of PTE. Having now established a workflow to handle this last restriction, I don't find this a problem.regards,Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fh1805 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 If this is true, then we don't have to worry about using the same PTE version in the creation of the Menu and its driven shows if we don't use the Animation Tab in the Menu? If you use Run Slideshow with Return or Run Slideshow then you must use the exact same version of PTE to do the Create of all the exe files. If you use Run Application then you can mix the PTE versions but may get a non-smooth transition from Menu to Sequence and back from Sequence to Menu. Note that it is only the Create that has to be done all with the same PTE version. The shows can be built using any PTE version. The "same PTE version" must be one that supports the Run Slideshow feature (which I think came in at v5.6)When you talk about 'Animation', I am thinking you only mean using Keyframes??......what do you mean my 'animation' that would use the 3D Hardware Accelerator feature, in relation to this Menu problem.?? That is what I think of as animation, too. A change in values between two keyframes that forces the 3D Hardware Acceleration feature to be used if enabled - and probably runs very jerkily if D3D is turned off..And, if the Menu has more than one driven show in its screen, you can only usethe 'Run Slideshow with Return' option (in the Common Tab/Action on Mouse Click) to be able to return to the Menu to make another selection from its menu? Is there any other way? Yes, there is but it is vastly more complicated. The Run Slideshow with Return technique is far and away the simplest technique for a Menu - if you can accept the need to Create everything using the same PTE version.regards,Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fh1805 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I don't think that using the same version of PTE can be regarded as a solution for club events etc., not even in a PTE monoculture. Xaver,I agree. But I was replying to Gary's specific situation. For the situation described by Ed in his original post there is no alternative but to use Run Application to launch off the Menu sequence - with all its possible problems of "desktop flashbacks" etc. that have discussed at length in other topics on the forum in the past.Whichever feature is being used in the Menu sequence, the "safe" option is always to turn off D3D in this sequence. Then there cannot be any conflict for control of the graphics features.regards,Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Overstreet Posted October 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Just to reinforce the points that Peter and Xaver made, in our club we have a number of members who persist (against my and JRR's best advice ) in submitting EXE shows created in ProShow and other software. Never mind the range of PTE versions in use out there. (It was enough of a battle to get showcase-night shows limited to EXE files, we get AVI and other formats too sometimes, but generally resist them due to the complications of finding out whether the club computer has the "right" CODECs for those other things.)I suppose we could just give up on PTE menu shows and live with running all the shows from Windows Explorer, but that's so boring and unprofessional-looking At least in my opinion, which is the only one that counts for our interclub showcase until someone else volunteers to run the thing. In the meantime, we sure don't want to see the option to turn off the 3D Hardware Acceleration disappear from PTE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goddi Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Greetings,Though it might have been implied, I don't think it was expressly stated. I want to make sure of one more point. When you are talking about the need to being able to turn off the 3DHA feature when you use a Menu.pte to run other PTE shows, all you are talking about is being able to turn off the 3DHA in the Menu file only, not the exe's that the Menu will run. Correct?Thanks...Gary===========================...In the meantime, we sure don't want to see the option to turn off the 3D Hardware Acceleration disappear from PTE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xahu34 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 Just to reinforce the points that Peter and Xaver made, in our club we have a number of members who persist (against my and JRR's best advice ) in submitting EXE shows created in ProShow and other software....Hi Ed,This sounds a little bit as if PTE were the centre of the AV-universe. But is it really true? My personal situation is quite different. I am a kind of exotic as a user of PTE among others who paid about a thousand Euros for Wings Platinum.Perhaps we should follow a typical Bavarian maxim: Leben und Leben lassen. Best regardsXaver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fh1805 Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Greetings,Though it might have been implied, I don't think it was expressly stated. I want to make sure of one more point. When you are talking about the need to being able to turn off the 3DHA feature when you use a Menu.pte to run other PTE shows, all you are talking about is being able to turn off the 3DHA in the Menu file only, not the exe's that the Menu will run. Correct?Thanks...Gary===========================Gary,You've got it! Only the Menu sequence needs D3D turned off.regards,Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRR Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Hi Ed,This sounds a little bit as if PTE were the centre of the AV-universe. But is it really true? My personal situation is quite different. I am a kind of exotic as a user of PTE among others who paid about a thousand Euros for Wings Platinum.Perhaps we should follow a typical Bavarian maxim: Leben und Leben lassen. Best regardsXaverXaver:Not answering on behalf of Ed, but as I have been involved with the original posting to this thread, I thought I would add my two cents worth. PTE is the centre of the universe for some :rolleyes: We all have our own biases.Based on experience we have had with other software, PTE rises above the others. But I recognize that some of that is a function of the producer, not the software.My wife has done a number of very nice shows with software that produces .avi files.I know the Canadian distributor of the software you mentioned, and I have seen many wonderful shows from the software, but if people think they have computer requirement problems with PTE, it is somewhat worse for the "normal" producer with that software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Overstreet Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Gary,You've got it! Only the Menu sequence needs D3D turned off.regards,PeterJust to reinforce Peter's point, for Gary -- in the showcase night where we had the 3DHA switch On for the menu, by mistake, I had two shows, both of which had been created with 3DHA turned ON because they both involved some mild P&Z animations. Those two shows run just fine from the menu-show buttons if the menu show has 3DHA turned OFF, and they don't if 3DHA is On with the menu show.I agree with Jim (JRR), of course. Yes, we're biased for PTE, for the reasons Jim mentioned. Also, much as I keep posting suggestions in the Ideas Forum to improve the PTE interface, I still find PTE's user interface a lot friendlier and more intuitive than that of other products I've tried. After finally figuring out the Photoshop interface (not to mention the sometimes quirky Silkypix Developer Studio for my nifty little Lumix LX3 backup camera), I have limited patience left for complex and daunting user interfaces that don't make sense to me (after ten years with Photoshop I still can't figure out why any sane photographer would want to go near a Bezier Curve )But, as we say in Canada, "different strokes for different folks." Or, "chacun à son goût." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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