VideoBuilder Encoder to make AVI

[sanewcomb]

Is there a way of using the VideoBuilder encoder in the Create/AVI video file function of P2E?

I know you can make a mpeg2 file directly in VideoBuilder, but I would like to be able to select the VideoBuilder codec to make the movie file in the Create AVI video file function of P2E, which allows more options for making the mpeg2 file. I cannot use the VideoBuilder itself to create DVD Movie discs on my system due to errors during the burn process.

Thanks for any help,

Steve Newcomb

Tucson, AZ USA

[sanewcomb]

Tom,

Thanks for the reply, but the actual problem I am trying to solve has to do with the distortion the VideoBuilder app imparts on 4:3 P2E slideshows when making a DVD NTSC movie disk (maybe PAL as well but I don't know). I should have stated this in addition to the burn problems I have with VideoBuilder. I can create an ISO file and burn it with the free ISO burner P2E suggests after a failed burn, but that doesn't address the distortion problem.

Since there is no setting in VideoBuilder to address how a 4:3 P2E slideshow is cropped/padded/resized to fit the 720x480 NTSC DVD standard, there is no way to correct the distortion problem. The Create AVI File function prepares a 4:3 P2E slideshow correctly (padding 40 pixels either side), so if the VideoBuilder Encoder was available in the Video encoder pull down box in the Create AVI function then there would be a work around for the problem, and it seems like it would involve little or no programming effort on the WnSoft team.

I've tried in the past to point out this problem to Igor, but have had no success and don't expect any changes to the VideoBuilder app itself on this issue.

Thanks again for the effort.

Steve Newcomb

Tucson, AZ USA

[davegee]

Steve,

A couple of thoughts:

Why not make the project 15:10 - same AR as the 720x480 NTSC (and DSLR format)?

If the 4:3 AR is absolute and cannot be changed why not make the images 4:3 within the 15:10 AR and create the black lines in the project?

Either way - no distortion.

DaveG

[Igor]

Steve,

I don't fully understand what kind of problem with distortion do you mean in case of 4:3 NTSC DVD in VideoBuilder?

I just encoded 4:3 NTSC DVD and it looks right. No distortions of a picture.

In 4:3 NTSC DVD resolution of picture is 720x480 and pixel not square (you can easily check it up dividing 720 on 480 = 15:10). To solve this issue all MPEG2 encoders (including VideoBuilder) distort/compress picture vertically. And when you watch encoded MPEG2 file or DVD, player performs back operation - extends picture vertically.

I'm sure that VideoBuilder correctly creates video file for NTSC.

[sanewcomb]

Steve,

I don't fully understand what kind of problem with distortion do you mean in case of 4:3 NTSC DVD in VideoBuilder?

Igor,

Well, I'll try one more time to explain it, and perhaps provide some files for you to test for yourself in a few days time. It has been awhile since I looked closely at this problem.

In 4:3 NTSC DVD resolution of picture is 720x480 and pixel not square (you can easily check it up dividing 720 on 480 = 15:10).

To solve this issue all MPEG2 encoders (including VideoBuilder) distort/compress picture vertically. And when you watch encoded MPEG2 file or DVD, player performs back operation - extends picture vertically.

Some of what you write is correct, some is not. I will not try to write a complete answer at this time, but instead will point directly at what I see as the problem. This applies to slideshows made for the 4:3 standard only.

A P2E slideshow using 4:3 images and set for a 4:3 output will produce an EXE which has 4:3 dimensions (ie. 1024x768, 800x600, 640x480), thus preserving the correct aspect ratio on a monitor that is set to 4:3 dimensions.

You are correct the standard for NTSC DVD is 720x480. When making a DVD movie slideshow, P2E has two choices. It can either

A. scale the images to 720x540 AND crop to 720x480

or

B. scale the images to 640x480 AND pad 40 pixel black bars on the left and right side to make a 720x480 frame

I think option B is preferable because it preserves the entire image area, even though some will be lost no matter what due to the TV's overscan.

P2E's Create AVI function actually does option B when creating a custom 720x480 AVI file. This file can then be used by 3rd party DVD authoring program to make an undistorted DVD slideshow. I have done this and this is the reason I requested the option to use the VideoBuilder's encoder in the Create AVI function.

Try it out for yourself. Create a short AVI using a MPEG2 encoder of your choice, with a custom output set to 720x480. Then use VideoBuilder to make a MPEG2 file of the same slideshow. Make sure the slideshow is set to 4:3 and you are using 4:3 images to eliminate issues when trying to convert other standards. Then make a DVD movie slideshow using both source files and see the difference yourself. It isn't much and hardly anyone has noticed it for several years. But some have and it is there.

I'm sure that VideoBuilder correctly creates video file for NTSC.

I am equally sure it does not! : )

Sincerely,

Steve Newcomb

Tucson, AZ USA

[Igor]

Steve,

The key moment - computer displays have square pixels whereas picture of MPEG2 video for DVD does not.

To rightly encode 4:3 slideshow to 4:3 video of NTSC DVD it is necessary to stretch picture of slideshow to 720x480 before encode it. And player does back transformation when you watch this video on your screen.

Please see the article "DVD Formats and Aspect Ratios". It explains everything regarding this issue: http://polymesh.nwcolor.com/docs/DVDAspect...osExplained.pdf

The benefit of VideoBuilder, it directly renders video for NTSC DVD in stretched format ready for NTSC without need in an additional transformation. And if you use AVI, another DVD encoder will stretch your video again and you lose in quality.

If VideoBuilder did it incorrectly users of PicturesToExe reported us about distorted proportions of faces in created NTSC DVD disc or black strips.

[sanewcomb]

Igor,

I'm afraid your intellect has clouded your ability to see reality and is preventing you from understanding this problem. Please try what I have asked and because you are so certain in your belief of understanding these video standards, create a grid with a large circle for the slideshow image. Use a ruler to measure the image directly on whatever screens you use. Measure as many screens as you can because there is a variance. I have done this, and P2E VideoBuilder distorts the images by resizing them to 720x480. You are right TV pixels are not square, but this is all handled behind the scenes by the hardware and software and the programmer does not have to be concerned with it.

Seeing is believing.

Sincerely,

Steve Newcomb

Tucson, AZ USA

[Igor]

Steve,

When in "Create AVI" window you choose custom resolution and set 720x480 you get wrong and not optimal result for NTSC DVD due to square pixels in AVI picture.

You know that there are two main aspect ratio for NTSC DVD video discs - 4:3 and 16:9. But in both cases encoded picture of video on a disc has 720x480 pixels (15:10) of size. But if simply fit 4:3 video to 720x480 size, we will not optimally utilize all possible space of a picture on DVD. To solve this problem developers of MPEG2 and DVD have used a special trick - "Display Aspect Ratio". Source video 4:3 or 16:9 stretches to 720x480 and we add a special flag which tells player what aspect ratio it had before stretching. So picture of video on NTSC DVD disc must be stretched. And no black strips on picture - we use 100% of picture space.

Did you try to play NTSC DVD disc (created in VideoBuilder or created ISO and then burned) on usual DVD player connected to television (not via computer)?

[sanewcomb]

Hi Igor,

I have to apologize for my statement that some of what you wrote or your understanding of the NTSC standard was wrong, but there is an interesting story behind all of this related to reality (or at least a small sample of it). But first to set things straight, you are correct that the VideoBuilder follows the NTSC DVD standards and creates slideshow movies according to the standards. So don't change any of that.

However, my observations and measurements are also not wrong. What explains this? Although standards are created to try and provide a uniform experience to the end user, sometimes reality gets in the way. Since most TVs are analog devices, and the DVD format is "locked" into an analog device along the path at some point anyway, there is no precise control over the actual dimensions of the final image the viewer sees. Each individual TV takes the signal and displays it according to its own scan settings, which themselves change over time. On all of the CRT TVs in our house the Option B method I described produces a more accurately scaled image on the screen than the VideoBuilder output that follows the standard. That is why I prefer making DVDs this way. I've also read about others who make home DVD movies doing this and I've observed various DVD Authoring programs like Nero Vision and Ulead Moviemaker treating the aspect ratio differently, which is one reason I felt strongly keeping the 640x480 "frame" intact was correct. I've never seen the black bars on either side. They must be "lost" in the overscan area which all TVs use. A side benefit of Option B is seeing almost all of the horizontal image content on the screen.

I know 3 TVs in one household is a very small sample size, but I wonder if the majority of CRT TVs are "misadjusted" in the same direction, or perhaps drift in the same direction over time so that any older CRT TV distorts the image the same way.

I'm no longer advocating changing the output of VideoBuilder. It should stick to the standards. But given the reality that TVs are not all adjusted the same way, would it be possible to allow the Create AVI function to use the VideoBuilder's encoder so that the end user can alter the settings if he so chooses? It is funny. I've watched the same TV for years and it never really mattered, but as soon as I saw a P2E DVD slideshow on it after viewing the same show on my computer many times, I instantly saw the distortion and it bothered me. When all the TVs in the house showed it I concluded there must be something wrong in the way P2E was making the videos. If the majority of TVs are actually adjusted this way, maybe it should be an option for the user. Besides, even on a correctly adjusted TV, Option B shows everyone taller and slimmer, a preference most people will take over appearing shorter and fatter on misadjusted sets!

Attached are two pte slideshows with 4:3 grid tests. One will give you a 1024x758 test pattern stretched to fill 720x480, as the VideoBuilder does it. The other scales the test pattern to 640x480 and adds 40 pixel black bars on either side as described by Option B. They can be burned to the same DVD. Run them on a number of CRT TV sets and measure the x and y axes of the circle directly on the screen. Divide x by y to give an aspect ratio. Would be interesting to see what numbers pop up for other people's TVs. Depending on what DVD authoring program I used, the numbers ranged from 0.98 to 1.30 across our TVs.

One might think HDTVs solve this problem, but in ways it remains. Since I ran these tests we bought a Sony HDTV 1080p and a Samsung Blu-ray player. What I found, which may be limited to these models, is the image accuracy depends on how the two are connected. Using the RCA or Component connectors, the HDTV can be put into what it calls a Normal mode and the measured aspect ratio was 1.01 for the VideoBuilder Output. There was lots of padding of course on the left and right, but I was surprised the top and bottom were also cropped. Perhaps related to overscanning in the NTSC standard. When the HDTV is connected using the HDMI connector, the way one would hope most sets would be connected, there was no Normal setting. The closest setting was Full, where the image filled the screen. The aspect ratio in this case was 1.33 for the VideoBuilder output, and 1.18 for Option B. As I wrote above, other HDTVs or Blu-ray players may provide different options leading to different results.

Sincerely,

Steve Newcomb

Tucson, AZ USA

720x480ARatio.zip

720x540ARatio.zip

[Igor]

Steve,

Before write a reply I need a little more details on this issue you're describing.

If you burn 4:3 slideshow to NTSC DVD, please compare this DVD disc with another commercial DVD movie which has exactly same aspect ratio of video (4:3). Please try how it plays on your televisions. And then also compare with DVD playback on a computer (where video usually plays at 100% without hiding of parts of picture for Save TV zone).

[sanewcomb]

Igor,

I think I should say that I don't expect WnSoft to address all the scaling problems with playback on analog devices such as TV sets. Your product, VideoBuilder, creates DVD discs that follow the NTSC video standards. I was wrong to say it didn't. Nothing to fix with the VideoBuilder.

But one of the characteristics that I really enjoy with P2E is the many options, control and freedoms it gives the slideshow producer in making AV slideshows. My TVs are probably not a representative sample of all CRT TVs out there, but they are still the devices I use and show my creations to family and friends. I'd like to have the ability to correct for my TVs' distortions by using the VideoBuilder encoder in the Create AVI function of P2E, if possible. If not, that is ok too because there are alternative MPEG2 encoders that could be used to produce such a customized show.

I've provided answers below to your questions, but you don't really need to spend any more time investigating this issue as it relates to how VideoBuilder makes 4:3 NTSC DVD slideshows.

Sincerely,

Steve Newcomb

Tucson, AZ USA

If you burn 4:3 slideshow to NTSC DVD, please compare this DVD disc with another commercial DVD movie which has exactly same aspect ratio of video (4:3).

At first I thought it would be pretty easy to do this. But it turns out I don't have any commercial 4:3 DVDs. Almost all movies are formatted for the 16:9 DVD format (original shot ratio is almost always 1.85:1 or 2.39:1). I guess a TV series DVD would be put into the 4:3 DVD format. I don't have any of those commercial DVDs.

Please try how it plays on your televisions.

As I wrote earlier, when I make a 4:3 DVD using VideoBuilder it shows horizontally stretched out on my TVs, with an aspect ratio for the circle test pattern going up as far as 1.3 (instead of the expected 1.0). Granted, the main TV I use is misadjusted quite a bit, but none of them show an aspect ratio of 1.0 for a 4:3 DVD P2E disc. I have to say I've never noticed the excessive stretching before while watching normal TV broadcasts on this TV. The mind has a way of adapting to differences. I only noticed when comparing what I had been seeing on my computer monitor watching 4:3 P2E EXE slideshows with the 4:3 DVD slideshows made by VideoBuilder on my TV.

And then also compare with DVD playback on a computer (where video usually plays at 100% without hiding of parts of picture for Save TV zone).

I almost never watch any DVDs on the computer monitor due to the poor quality in general, and the exceptionally poor quality compared to P2E EXE files. I don't see the point of doing this. DVDs for TVs, P2E EXEs for computers. But to answer your question, the 4:3 DVD made by VideoBuilder looks correct on the computer playing on a DVD software player. It looks like the P2E EXE file played on the computer, except a LOT MORE fuzzy!

P.S. My memory of some websites and postings by people dealing with DVD videos and maintaining the 640x480 image size probably had to do with either watching ripped DVD movies on their computers or perhaps confused individuals. The analog part of the situation certainly makes it complicated to understand.

[DRURY]

Can anyone please help me? Using PTE I can make DVDs for my player. However, I want to make an .avi file of my PTE presentation. Clicking Video, and then make an avi, I get a .ptev file which my version of ULead Movie Maker v5 does not recognise. Apologies if the answer is somewhere on the Forum, but would be grateful as to how to make an .avi file, which prefereably I would like to save on my PC rather than have it written to a DVD.

Cheers, and thanks to anyone replying, Derek

[nobeefstu]

DRURY

Can anyone please help me? Using PTE I can make DVDs for my player. However, I want to make an .avi file of my PTE presentation. Clicking Video, and then make an avi, I get a .ptev file which my version of ULead Movie Maker v5 does not recognise. Apologies if the answer is somewhere on the Forum, but would be grateful as to how to make an .avi file, which prefereably I would like to save on my PC rather than have it written to a DVD

You can not make a standalone .avi file using the PTE Codec ... the codec produces a DVD Video file format and not a avi file format. You need to use a third party codec that produces a avi file format ... such as ms mpeg 4, xvid mpeg 4, or someother mpeg 4 codec. However, any codec you select to use to encode your avi file ... must also reside on other users pcs to be able to decode and play the avi file.

Im not aware of ULead Movie Maker v5 conversion capabilities or supported import formats.

If you want a high quality video of your slideshow to save and play on your pc ... try the new feature in betas v5.6 of Create | Create HD Video for PC and Mac . This creates a h.264 video file format using .mp4 extention. This also requires proper supporting codec on users pc to play . Many forum users have Home Cinema or the VLC player that plays and supports this video file format.

[DRURY]

Thanks for trying to help me. I can get a playable DVD using Videobuilder. However, in spite of your kind help I am still after an .avi file of my PTE show.

If you click "Video" at the foot of PTE v5.5 you get a dialog box stating "Video Output" with 2 choices (1) Burn DVD-Video disk (which is what I normally use) and (2) Create AVI file - which appears to be clearly a misnomer! As if you click this option you get a dialog box "Making of AVI Video file" and you have the choice of putting a tick into "For ULead DVD Move Factory" - not that I want to go down that route, but thought maybe you have to put the resulting file into ULead to get the desired avi file. Also there is a button to now click "Create AVI." Another misnomer apparently as all you get is a ptev file.

So I still need help to get what appears to be an illusive avi file - Cheers, Derek

[nobeefstu]

DRURY,

If you click "Video" at the foot of PTE v5.5 you get a dialog box stating "Video Output" with 2 choices (1) Burn DVD-Video disk (which is what I normally use) and (2) Create AVI file - which appears to be clearly a misnomer!

The Create AVI file functions of PTE are available to all users who did not purchase the Video Builder registration upgrade version of PTE. The functions allows users the possibility to create avi files and burn videos using any of your own third-party tools and codecs. By program default ... PTE initially loads the PicturesTo Exe Video Codec untill you otherwise select your own video codec preference for creating a Custom AVI. You must realize that video and avi these days can be created in any of numerous formats and compression schemes ... some of these codecs are free and some are shareware purchases. Some codecs just decompress and some compress and decompress. Welcome to the wide world and endless possibilities of this new age of video.

The Burn DVD-Video disk function of PTE is the Video Builder upgrade registration version of PTE. This function allows users to directly burn DVD Video without the need of any third party-tools. This provides users with a quick an easy method to create quality DVD.

[DRURY]

Hi Derek,

The ptev codec is not a real codec, it's a frameserver subroutine library (dll) that creates a temporay file (named pipe in unix terms). I sometimes use the temporary avi method with other video encoders like TMPTEnc 4 Xpress.

You can create a real .avi by selecting "Create custom AVI video file", select a video codec other than "PicturesToExe Video Codec" (ptev.dll).

I have not checked but there should be a tutorial somewhere in these forums on how to create a real .avi file.

Tom

[DRURY]

Hi Tom,

Wish I could find how to make the illusive .avi file in the Forum! Ohterwise I would not have made a post. Sorry, but what is a Codec - in other words what am I looking for in Google? How do I access it in PTE when I get it? Sorry I am so PC illiterate?

But thanks for trying to get me the .avi file I would so like to have.

Cheers, Derek

[DRURY]

Hi Tom,

Now there's something for me to try and learn! Looks as though I'm going to be busy over Xmas. Talking of that a happy Xmas to you, nobeefstu, and indeed to all Forum Members.

Cheers, Derek