Video clips and transitions

[fh1805]

There is a huge debate running elsewhere on the forum about the way in which the new slide duration timings are handled. The existing topics are the place to discuss the current implementation and it's perceived problems. But as one who has watched the discussions progress - and contributed occasionally - I think there is need for this separate topic.

There will be benefit, I believe, in having a discussion here about a) why you might want to transition into and out of a video clip? and which transition type you might find the best?

As I have stated elsewhere, I doubt that I will use video in my sequences (principally because none of my cameras has video capability). But that doesn't stop me considering how I would tackle it if I was to do so. I would start by studying the techniques adopted by movie film makers. They have been doing it for over 100 years. We would be foolish to ignore that wealth of experience. Now, I haven't done this methodically as yet; but my feeling is that 95% or more of the "transitions" from one scene to the next in a movie are what we would call "Quick" transitions. So why do we need to worry about the duration of the transitions around a video clip. If we think that the movie makers have got it right, all we will be using is the Quick - both for the in-bound and out-bound transitions. Ergo we do not need this new slide duration technique, do we?

There, I've opened up the debate. What do others think?

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

I don't necessarily agree with Peter's assessment - I think that more time is needed to make such a sweeping statement as:

"....we do not need this new slide duration technique, do we?"

In order to move on however, I have made the following suggestion:

Igor,

In order to progress I would like to offer a suggestion:

In FILE> NEW offer the user the option to create a New File with EITHER the old, 6.5, Keep Full Slide Duration Unticked method.....

....OR the new, 7.0.1, Keep Full Slide Duration Ticked method.

Not both.

Remove the Keep Full Slide Duration tickbox from the User Interface.

That way users can work in one method or the other until:

a. The percieved "bugs" are ironed out

b. Users are more comfortable with the 7.0.1 method.

At some time in the future in might be possible to re-integrate the two methods and in the meantime we can all concentrate on other more important issues.

I think that this would be a workable compromise and I recommend it to the forum.

DG

[fh1805]

Dave,

A provocative statement is a classic way of provoking a debate!

Peter

[davegee]

Me? Provocative?

Never!

I just think that it is too early to make a statement like that and that my compromise will PROVE that you are right (or not).

Best wishes,

DG

[Ronniebootwest]

You two guys are probably the most provocative on the forum! Having said that, you are also two of the most active forum members. I always respect and take note of whatever you both have to say.

Keep up the good work, this forum would be loser if you were to stop.

As far as the video clip question goes, I agree with Dave, in as much as we all need more time to evaluate the whole question of adding video.

Ron

[fh1805]

I wasn't suggesting that your statement was provocative, Dave. I was describing my own opening statements as being deliberately provocative - which they were.

Peter

[jkb]

I agree with Peter on this one.

Watch almost any film & the transitions between shots/scenes are almost always cuts (snap changes).

Having two moving images dissolve into each other leads to a mess on the screen.

If you need to use a transition, then do it over frames that do not have any intrinsic movement.

Keep things simple & only use effects if they add to the overall impression of a show.

Do not use them simply because they are there & you want to show how clever you are at being able to use every trick in the book!

Jill

[davegee]

Watch almost any film & the transitions between shots/scenes are almost always cuts (snap changes).

Jill

Can we agree on two things?

Firstly to Differ on the above statement and secondly to move on - my compromise suggestion might achieve both objectives.

DG

[fh1805]

Dave,

This debate is entirely independent of your suggestion (a variant of which I have endorsed elsewhere). This topic is a perfectly valid discussion for the forum members to be having. It is about the artistic aspect of video clip inclusion rather than the technical implementations. Or are you suggesting that discussion about artistic matters has no place on this forum?

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

Sorry Sir,

I'll stick to the agenda!

I have ALWAYS, when moving from one animated image into another (not video) overlapped the two transitions.

I conducted a poll a few years ago asking the membership of our CC which one was preferable/ more acceptable and 100 hundred hands went up in favour of overlapping transitions/animations.

DG

[fh1805]

I don't deny that there can be occasions when a "transition", with animation running across it, can be effective. My own sequence commemorating 50 Years of Manned Spaceflight had exactly that. But it was built using Quick changes to keep the animation flowing smoothly and the background "transitions" were done via opacity change in O&A in the middle of a slide. I didn't need a different timing system to allow me to achieve the end result.

I accept, therefore, that a transition from a still image to video or from video to a still image could be effective - if the transition type and duration are carefully chosen. But does that require a new timing system? Does having such a timing system make the build process any easier? I digress from the artisticdebate, sorry.

I still maintain, however, that the change from one video to another through a transition will, almost always, result in a very messy transition, as the two moving images overlap and visually conflict with one another.

regards,

Peter

[denwell]

It seems to me that, at this point in time, the majority of PTE users are not videographers but photographers who have been given the opportunity to include video clips within a PTE project.

What are we to use this opprtunity for? I've seen very few examples of video clip use in a serious way - being used mainly for testing and evaluation purposes. I would value an outline of the genuine uses for such video, beyond a 'clever' background effect.

I appreciate Igor has concentrated on this additional facility to keep pace with other softwares, if not to keep ahead of the game, and who can criticise for that.

I believe we need more time to assimilate the new use of video, in a genuinely creative way, before we get further bogged down with the question of transitions and slide duration timings - all of which confuses me beyond belief.

When we can all clearly see the creative benefits and possibilities of video inclusion, then the question of its technicalities will become more pressing but until then are we not getting ahead of ourselves?

[davegee]

But does that require a new timing system? Does having such a timing system make the build process any easier? I digress from the artisticdebate, sorry.

I still maintain, however, that the change from one video to another through a transition will, almost always, result in a very messy transition, as the two moving images overlap and visually conflict with one another.

regards,

Peter

Peter,

A good argument, but it wasn't the straightforward inclusion of the video that caused the problem which initiated the new method.

It was the pitfalls that CAN occur when such slides are moved around.

I think that it has to be recognized also that some people (possibly not you or I) are going to want to overlap videos and the software has to be able to cope with all user's requirements.

DG

[RobertAlbright]

I would just like to say (no heat, just light please) that yes, I do wish to be able to make transitions in PTE from Stills to Movies - and back again. Sometimes the transitions will be Cuts, sometimes they will be Fades, I don't want anyone telling the software designer that the options should be restricted. I take care with my productions so that every transition is thought through and placed manually on the Timeline, often adjusted many times before final publication. So I'm afraid I don't really understand the concerns about Length of Slide Duration. So long as I, as the author, can control it, I'm happy.

PTE caters for many different types of AV producer. Some want a quick and dirty solution - Take 100 images, underscore with a single soundtrack (one track of music only) and move on. That's fine. Others want to produce Narrative work, images shot to the storyline, actors' voices and cross-fade music as underscore. That's fine, too. Others are absorbed by the technology of photography or software or sound effects. That's fine, too. PTE is great for all.

HD Video is just the latest major development in AV production. Producers on the competition circuit know that, before long, it will be all the rage with judging panels when used effectively in combination with excellent stills photography. It will win AV Festivals by introducing something new and exciting. That's fine too.

Everyone's welcome to enjoy PTE. Let's keep it open to all comers, whatever their intentions.

[davegee]

All,

Please take a look at this thread:

....and tell me if you see any parallels or lessons that can be learned and applied to the discussion about the new timing method.

The "lesson" that I refer to does not provide an argument for either side here but I think that it is relevant.

DG

[Guest Yachtsman1]

I have dabbled with Cine, Analogue Video & Digital video on & off over the last 50 years. Cine was pretty straight forward in that you used what you had shot, sent it off for processing then either spliced it together with a few title cards Then the facility to record syncronised sound came along & added a whole new feature and skill requirement. In the early 70s I bought the first Sony shoulder mounted video camera with a shoulder bag type JVC video recorder. I then bought a couple of camcorders & a sound editing set up. None of the equipment I used gave the results I have since acheived with PTE. After sweating blood mastering Audacity I was quite happy to rest on my laurels and build slide shows using them both.

Then PTE introduced basic sound editing, which if my memory serves me correctly was around 18 months ago. From that date I stopped up-grading PTE A) because I was happy using what I had & B ) I didn't fancy the sound system PTE had come up with & thought I would hang fire until all the experts were happy with it, I believe it is still not fully completed, for reasons of which I am unsure of.

Now we have the introduction of video, which I believe has been around for some 9 months & of which there has been more controversy than the Kennedy assination. I have no problem with the concept, however to expect to be able to take a piece of video from a DSLR & insert it into a PTE show is a pipe dream. You only have to look at the size of a 30 second video clip to see that the size of an exe file jumps to, beyond transmission by most email providers tolerate, so that's one strike. The free size limits provided by the likes of Mediafire will soon be reached without resorting to a paid subscription.

Finally, editing a video clip. To do this correctly will require new software, new hardware & storage facilities enough to make your eyes water.

I assume the priciples at Winsoft are only going down this route to try to keep pace with their rivals. But if I was considering buying PTE for the first time & checked all the adverse comments there had been on the two new features, I would be thinking twice.

I watch lots of documentary programmes on TV mostly wildlife & nature, IMHO aroud 60% of the footage they use are stills, with an occasional action shot of a whale coming up for air or an owl scooping up a mouse. These guys spend weeks sometimes months on end getting that 5 or 10 second action shot out of possibly many hours of filming.

To sum up, for the forseeable future I am content with what I can acheive with Audacity & my version of PTE as I know that trying to use the new features will not improve what I can do. Saying that, adjustable transitions between incoming & outgoing slides without resorting to a black intervening slide sounds like a useful feature.

Yachtsman1.