Music choice

[jeanie]

Hello all

As a newbie to the audio visual idea and having seen a few shows I am completely impressed by choice of music. Barry's choice for his Black Country, Australia, and the Balloons come to mind. In the creation of a audio visual I wonder at what stage people come upon their music choice. Is it sudden inspiration? is it a piece of favourite music they have always had waiting to find a home for ? And then I suppose there's the difficulty of making the slides come in unison or in with the feel of the music. Is it alot of trial and error and trying lots of different tracks till one fits? I am most interested to know members experiences for coming upon just that right music for their piece.

thanks in anticipation

Jeanie.

[Alan Lyons]

Hi Jeanie,

This is one of the hardest things to get right. The music can have such a dramatic effect on your show, both for the good and bad! The music, voice, and FX should serve to inhance the images. You need to be careful how you choose your piece. Just because you like a certin piece it does not follow that it's the right choice. I have seen many a good show ruined by bad but pridictable choises, and average shows lifted by using a less obvious choise which proved to be the right one for the job.

The basic gidelines would be:

1. Don't use well known pieces.(You are showing "Autumn Colours",

but your audience wants to buy bread).

2. Ask does the music fit the show, not do I like the piece.

If both apply give yourself a lollypop

3.Don't choose a song if you intend to talk.

2 voices on a soundtrack sound like 2 voices in a room.

4.Don't change slides to the rythm of the music.

Your audience will call out the changes or clap along

5. Don't be afraid to mix and match,

My last show has 5 pieces of music

6. Ask someone else to view the show.

You can be too close to your show sometimes

7. Consider cinema soundtracks,

They were written for the screen anyway

8. Most importently, enjoy

Best wishes,

Alan

[alrobin]

4.Don't change slides to the rythm of the music.

Your audience will call out the changes or clap along

Hi, Alan,

I'm looking forward to debating this one with you over a pint this Saturday night!

[Alan Lyons]

you hum it lad, and I'll play it

[dagrace]

While I won't be there to share the pint, I'll add my 2 cents' worth (that seems funny, talking about $ 0.02 US to a Canadian and an Irishman

I just did a show that had some things different from any other show I've seen (I haven't seen that many, admittedly): upbeat music, and music with lyrics.

I was a bit nervous about this, but the audience was limited and specific. The event was my son's college graduation, and the audience is my immediate family and his friends (all featured in the slide show). The music was from the college choir, of which he and several of his friends were members.

I originally started with a slow tune, but decided I wanted the atmosphere more upbeat. So I changed tunes and I was amazed at how different the same slides looked when set to different music. (I have just violated Alan's Rule #1 and verified #2.)

One thing that became very apparent to me is that I "had to" change slides to the rhythm of the music. (Violating Rule #4.) I used a half-second fade on most, and tried it both ways before deciding to end the fade on the downbeat rather than starting the fade on the downbeat. I will admit here that I am probably more a musician than I am a photographer, so I am very aware at several levels of the music and the beat. I can imagine on a slow, lyric-less, landscape show (like Al's show from the US Canyonlands) that it would be less important, but for this show it seemed right. I didn't change every downbeat, or every 2 measures, etc., but when I did a change, it was on a beat.

Let's see... I've violated more rules than I've verified so far. Rule #3, did you mean don't choose a song with words if you intend to talk, or did you mean don't have any music at all. If the former, I can easily concur. If the latter, I'm not so eager to agree yet.

#5 and #6, absolutely. I had 3 pieces, and my wife both talked me out of the slow piece and suggested 1 of the fast ones.

#7 - I have no experience and therefore no comment.

Back to the lyrics - I wanted the words to say something about the photos. I had a basic flow in mind, but I tweaked a slide here and there to make this photo line up with these words. So the show has musical jokes, political comment, inside jokes, touching memories, etc. for this very specific audience.

Perhaps that's not the intended use of PTE, but the kids enjoyed it and I verified Rule #8.

Final tally:

Rules broken: 2

Rules verified: 4

Jury still out: 2

Not a bad showing, I suppose.

My personal addition to the list is:

9. Don't underestimate the power the music has over the overall effect. Try different things. Get it right. You'll know it when you do.

Jeanie, hope this helps!

[Alan Lyons]

Hi David and all,

Pity you can't be there for a pint, but we'll raise a glass to you at some stage. You say rules, I say guidelines, how do you say tomatto?

In no.2 I suggest that you don't talk over lyrics, as this confuses the listener.

It sounds as if your show, David is one which the target audience will love, and what else can we hope for except to reach an audience you did'nt expect.

The wife/ husband is one of the best editing tools available to us, so long as "creative differences" don't split up the band.

"Perhaps that's not the intended use of PTE"

Of course it is, thats like saing a piano is only for playing classics in a concert hall and not for bashing out tunes in your granny's parlor at Christmas.

Now we'll just wait and see what Jeanie thinks of our meanderings,

Alan

[jeanie]

hello all

thanks for your comments. I think I do realize that the music you use for a piece can make it or break it. Hence the reason for the question. I know I have a set of images which I recently put together for an exhibition for my college course.They are candid pictures about people stopping for a brew. I thought I might try and have a go with my newly downloaded version of PTE and have a play around. Best way to learn don't you think? Now I've got to think of a piece of music to go with it.

What I really wanted to know was any experiences you have had in coming upon that right piece? Was it sudden inspiration? Where you listening to the radio? Lying on the beach? Going through all your music CDs? . Did you keep trying different tracks till you found one that fitted? Or any other novel way?

thanks in anticipation

jeanie.

[bobbinman]

Jeanie

As a newbie myself, what I did was to try and think what style of music would go with my images. as my show was on wildlife in Africa, I just did a search on google for royalty free music logged on to the sites mentioned below and searched for Tanzanian artists or anything to do with Africa and just listened to loads of clips. I then decided on the one I liked and just kept experimenting with the timeline and moving slides around and around until I was happy. It's not easy but I am sure you will know when you have found the right piece.

The two web sites I used were

http://www.shockwave-sound.com & http://www.calabashmusic.com

Hope this helps

Chris

[bobbinman]

Correction

www.calabashmusic.com is not royalty free, I just used it to get inspiration!

Chris

[Alan Lyons]

Hi Jeanie,

You seem to have the concept formed in your mind of these people stopping for a brew, by the way is it tea or "falling down" brew. This alone could change your choice.

You might consider starting with a hetic tune to convey a bussy day adding some street scenes to the show, then slowly fade to a restful piece like you hear in the comercials for teas or any thing to do with unwinding. Then a return to the cahos of the day afterwards. The first piece could even be sound fx with the second coming in over a scene of the first candid with the traffic out of focus in the backround. This would lead well into the main body of the show and you could use the same in reverse to get back out.

Alan

[dagrace]

What I really wanted to know was any experiences you have had in coming upon that right piece? Was it sudden inspiration? Where you listening to the radio? Lying on the beach? Going through all your music CDs?  . Did you keep trying different tracks till you found one that fitted? Or any other novel way?

Interesting question Jeanie...

There's probably another entire topic here, like "How do you get creative?" or something inexhaustible like that.

As I mentioned earlier, I had tried one song and it was lovely, but it wasn't right. It was a slow tune, so I let the pendulum swing and tried some up tunes. The first one was the right direction, but not the right song. I knew I wanted to use this group, so I went through all my CDs of theirs, looking for up tunes. I'm pretty familiar with all their work, so just reading titles reminded me of the songs. I made a list of candidates. Since I knew the show was going to be more than 3 minutes or so, I started mentally piecing different ones together. "Oh, this one starts slow, but there is a fast section. I could pull that out and it's sort of the same style as this one here..."

I did end up changing my mind 3 or 4 times, but eventually it just felt right.

I guess I sort of limited myself because I knew I wanted to use a particular group. If I had not done that, it probably would have been a longer process. I still believe that the creative spirit in us that begs for expression is a good friend. Don't "settle" for something. You'll know it when it's right!

Now, will you share it when you get it done? I'm fascinated to see what you end up with.

[Ken Cox]

There's probably another entire topic here, like "How do you get creative?" or something inexhaustible like that

many many moons ago a Bell and Howell rep told me

"imagination and deep pockets" when i asked a similar question

ken

[LumenLux]

Jeanie, I have always been thankful that I fell in love and then wanted to get married. I always thought it would be more difficult to want to get married but have to consciously search the infinite possibilities. I find the same principal applies to music for my shows.

Fortunately, inspiration will often bring the appropriate photos and music together. Sometimes, they seem to converge out of nowhere. One of my favorite music/show matches came from a couple of unheard-of downloads from a free site. I dl'd about 6 songs and two of them were perfect!

Now, on the other hand, I have been struggling for a couple of weeks with a show, that I am not "sure" what to use. I was going to bring this topic up in a little different form - but have held up the show until I convince myself what meets my "vision" for the show. So far, the music I am using seems to fit the photos probably from an objective viewers point, but it changes my vision somewhat from my original intent for the show. I will probably end up posting the show and solicit some help from you and others too.

[dagrace]

I have always been thankful that I fell in love and then wanted to get married.

What a great analogy! It is quite like that, even down to when it's not quite finished, and you haven't quite made up your mind, and there is still might even be some consideration of other alternatives, but deep down, you know this one is right.

You made me smile, LumenLux.

[alrobin]

They are candid pictures about people stopping for a brew.

Jeanie,

Your timing is perfect. Alan and I will be meeting for a brew Saturday night in Dublin, so we'll keep your project in mind and let you know if we come up with any inspiration.

Matter of fact, that's probably the best way for you to think of suitable music - sit down and have a few brews in a nice pub, and you never know when the muse will inspire you.

I got the idea for a skiing slide show once while driving up for a ski meet, and they were playing a piece on the radio which was perfect for what I wanted. Then it took me a year to find it - on an old Weavers LP at a garage sale! These are the best shows - for personal use and enjoyment, anyway!

[jeanie]

hello all,

thanks for your replies and all help offered. I looked at the music sites suggested. What a good idea! I like the ones that allow you to listen to a snippit.

I still think one of best things about photography is that it makes you look at the world differently. You look at details you never noticed before. The sky and the landscape become more beautiful than before. I'm looking at the light all the time. And you see things.

I am beginning to think that taking the step into AV. is going to make me listen to music differently too. A deeper appreciation I think. When I heard B Beckham's theme from the Hovis advert.( can't remember it's proper title off hand) put to his Black Country I thought wow! From what I've seen so far the pictures are added to by the addition of music. But I think also the images give something to the music.

By the way My Time For A Brew images are about tea/coffee drinking.I have a whole collection of candid shots of people out and about having a cuppa. In the car, Biker's breakfast stops, cafes, Out hiking, farmer's auctions, student canteens, by the roadside, Morecambe prom. etc.

Thanks again in anticipation,

jeanie

[ContaxMan]

"Hovis" is from Dvorak "New World"