DRAWING THE LIGHT

[cici]

Hi to everybody

first of all my best wishes for 2010.

This show just to descibe the new sattion in the belgian town of LIEGE, designed by SANTIAGO CALATRAVA

To see the station like it is possible in this show, you'll need many , many houres of the day and night.

I hope you will profit of it to visit the station in 9 minutes.

hre is the link:

http://www.samwhuel.com/download/station.zip

[Ken Cox]

Sam

a magnificent piece of architecture and you brought out all its beauty with your photographic talent:)

ken

[cici]

Hi Ken

thank you for your kind appreciation

[dadou]

Cici, I yet said you how I like this show !

Good subject , very good photos , good work on them and excellent musical sauce !

All the best ..

[cici]

Hi Daniel,

yes, I remember, and I thank you again for your enthousiastic appreciation

Friendly

[jfa]

Cici

We have been treated to some very good AVs here and on Beechbrook over the last few weeks and this is another one. Well done.

The images taken at night, I found, were particularly good. The detail design in the light coloured roof was highlighted well against the darker background.

I like design and lines in photography, architectural photography in particular and could look at it for hours. However for someone who thinks architecture is nothing special this AV may be a little long.

Good choice of music also.

You must have spent many hours photographing the wonderful subject, again well done and thanks.

[cici]

Hi jifa,

thank you very much for your kind appreciation.

However for someone who thinks architecture is nothing ...

he has just to stop watching, lol! I never mind about duration. I always take the time I need for developing my subject. I'm used to shows of more than one hour (public shows) and never had problems

You must have spent many hours photographing the wonderful subject,

It took me 2 full after-noons and a very long evening

[Lin Evans]

Hi Sam,

Masterful presentation - bravo!

The perspective correction was excellent on these photos. Did you perhaps use a tilt/shift lens, or maybe stitched multiple images? In any event, excellent photography and a very good "eye" for interesting architectural angles and views.

A great choice of music, timing and thoughtful presentation (the small touches such as on the escalator didn't go unnoticed).

Best regards,

Lin

[cici]

Hi Lin,

Thank You very much for your so enthousiastic appreciation!

The perspective correction was excellent on these photos. Did you perhaps use a tilt/shift lens, or maybe stitched multiple images?

No pespective correction at all, in this case: just walking far away enough...as it was possible.

And I was very lucky : people stopped behind me as soon as I was taking pictures: I think they were impressed by my long hairs , lol

Whenever I need to correct perspective I do it in PhotoFiltre Studio

... and thoughtful presentation (the small touches such as on the escalator didn't go unnoticed).

I'm very happy You noticed that!

Thank You for Your nice effcts you prepare for us

Friendly

Sam

[LumenLux]

Congratulations Sam - on this superb presentation. Everything I observed was precisely perfect to my understanding of your many intentions. Your photography was so good, that only you could create such a presentation that would add to the photography. While the "moving" escalator was appreciated, it only reminded me of how many other subtle touches you made. The alignment of elements between slides and transitions has a very positive, cumulative, effect. From your familiar style slides at the start, to the climactic finish - wonderful.

[cici]

Hi Robert,

I thank You very much for your apprciation you expressend so warmly! And the careful attention you dedicated to my work makes me very happy.

Friendly

[Barry Beckham]

Hello Cici

I must admist that I have agonised for a couple of days over responding to your slide show and making a comment as the others have. I am also surprised that there have only been 4 people who have made a comment for you and I think you can draw some conclusions from this. Far more would have downloaded and watched your show, so why so few comments. Those comments given are all very good ones. Your avatar shows you as a man of senior years, so I guess you know that it requires almost no effort to say "That's nice", more nerve to give contructive feedback. (no criticism of the other four contributors) Remember too that we all have our own likes and dislikes and that is why any feedback you ever get, you can choose to take it or leave it, especially mine

The building is quite stunning and is a good choice for an audio visual sequence but 9 minutes is way too long. We are enthusiasts on this site and as a result you are probably going to get a better than average chance that we will sit for the 9 minutes and watch your sequence. I would suggest those who are less enthusiastic will not and they will reach for the escape key. I think you have enough good material for 3, maybe 4 minutes and by reducing the length your show, you will be improved in two ways. A shorter show will be far more watchable and you can take out some shots that are repetative in the sequence and again the show will improve in my view

Commenting on an authors choice of music is always an odd thing to do because music is so personal to us, but I am sorry to say it didn't work for me. I think if the station had been an old style one like some of the main city stations we see all over Europe with those huge curved roofs, the cathedral style music would have worked much better. My first thoughts on seeing the station was that it is very futuristic and more modern choice of music would have worked better for me.

The titles and use of animation at the start was good, but you need to adjust one set of letters that go off the screen on the left and the right. The other animation while clever, doesn't add to the impact of the show and can easily be missed. It is also a little fast perhaps.

The show appears to have been made at 1024*768 pixels, yet I can see quality issues in the even tones in some images. It suggests that a camera with a small chip has been used or you have cropped the images a little too small.

The station looks like the perfect place for a wide angle lens approach and I often put my camera on self timer and place it on the floor is such places to get a viewpoint that is a bit different. I think the sweeping shapes would be emphasised and more powerful with this approach.

My agony has been that unlike the other contributors here, the sequence didn't work as well for me and with so few comments made (all positive) it would almost look as though I was being contrary for the sake of it. I hope my contructive comments are taken in the spirit they are given.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi Sam

I don't usually download shows that are large files, but after reading Barry Beckhams assassination of it I thought I would download it to see how bad it actually was. It wasn't bad, it wasn't the best I've seen, but I wish I'd produced it. At 9 minutes it's 3 minutes longer than I would show to a PTE savvy group, I know because I've suffered for the same reason. I watched it all the way through, and was so impressed I re-ran it for my wife, who also thought it excellent. The faults I did see were the size on the screen, the black border was too wide on my set up. Whether it was done deliberately to to enable a reduction of file size, I don't know, but that's just my opinion, i'm not a fan of borders & frames. I did see the text stretch beyond the picture at one point, the initial animation was fast at the start. But overall a very creditable effort that I would be proud to put my name on, & the music choice was excellent, the cathedral like structure of the station was brought to life, in fact I've used all three pieces in my shows. I've kept a copy of the show and will put it on my "shows by others" list.

Barry I don't know if the TV show "Grumpy Old Men" had started before you went south? If you ever return you could apply to be a guest.

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1

PS Just one other thing I spotted, the escalator effect at the end was a little fast

[Barry Beckham]

Eric

I did send you a personal message, but you haven't responded.

Isn't it a little unfair to label a person's view an assassination just because you don't agree with it? or have you allowed your dislike of me get the better of you again. This sort of response can do a lot of damage to a great forum, if people feel they cannot respond in any other way, but fully positive and in line with the core members. In that case many will not respond at all and that doesn't help those who are genuinely looking for honest feedback. We can all get a little self indulgent when making shows and I include myself in there too. It often takes someone else to shake us free of that. It is part and parcel of the creative process.

It is more difficult to give constructive comments than it is to give praise and we do have moderators on the site who would quickly step in and remove any remarks that were inappropriate or offensive.

Why do you feel you need to comment on my comments on a slide show by Cici, Why not view the show and make your own comments independently of anyone else. Just voice your own opinions and have some respect for others who may not share your views. It is Cici who must decide if any of the comments made about his show have merit or not.

Advice can be taken or left and I am sure the author can make those decisions for himself.<BR style="mso-special-character: line-break"><BR style="mso-special-character: line-break">

Cici

My appologies for drifting off the topic we should be on

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi Barry

I read the comments on the show from two senior forum members which were very positive, so when I read yours I thought I would download the show & see for my-self. Your critique was totally opposite to what others had said and what I saw. The show in question is at what I perceive as the upper level of others I have seen recently, hence my comments on what you had said. I would imagine your comments have deterred any newbies who have read them from posting their shows on here. You seem upset at what I've said about your comments, just imagine how Sam feels. You have the attitude when you post on here that what Barry says is what everyone should do & your way is the only way to do things. Well it isn't.

I'll do you a deal, you remove your critique & I'll remove mine, how's that cobber?

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1.

[morturn]

Well I for one have made the assumption that if a show is only posted on Beechbrook, it is there to share, feedback not required. However if a show is posted here on WinSoft, then the author is testing the water, they are inviting comment; they want an open and honest appraisal, what is good, what is not so good. From this they can learn form their mistakes, and improve.

So maybe it is time for the forum members and moderators to make a decision on how they would like this forum to look:

Is this a forum for adulation only, the king’s new suite of clothes?

Do you wish to continue and offer constructive critique, to help people learn and improve so that they can enjoy using PTE even more so?

At the end of the day, I don’t mind, I have always been honest with people, given credit when it is due, and been as constructive as I can when it was not, but this forum need to be clear about what it is here to do (with out stating the obvious please).

Now I do admit, I am biased, I have been dazzled by some of the work posted here, some of the shows have been quite breathtaking and emotionally loaded. Seeing stunning shows like that, gave me the motivation to buy PTE and learn how to use it. If I was developing and selling a product like PTE, I would want to see it used to its maximum potential, and see the customer experience grow.

[cici]

My dear bbdigital

First of all Ive to say that Im very, very proud of the few who made positive comments!

Its the second time Ive the pleasure to write to you: years ago when I explained to you how to have a valid link on a synchronized show and now to answer your assassination.

I went to this forum just to share and to keep myself up to date with PTE. No will of teaching, no will of criticizing.

I never spoke about me, neither on this forum, neither on my site, but this does not mean Ive nothing to say.

Ive learned from your site your background in photography.

As for you, my full time employment had no connection with photography, but Ive a more important photographic and AV back ground and especially a more prestigious one than yours: this just to demonstrate to you the efficiency of my method doing pictures or slideshows, and that in these matters I perfectly know what I do.

That is, from my experience I can tell you that your criticism is completely wrong because it comes from somebody who does not know what a good show is, and Ill demonstrate this.

I am also surprised that there have only been 4 people who have made a comment for you and I think you can draw some conclusions from this. Far more would have downloaded and watched your show, so why so few comments.

Very subltil in trying to kill somebody!

Generally I do not care about this just because my conclusion is quite different from yours and here is why:

A few time ago on a french forum dedicated to slideshows, somebody had to ask advice for doing a very long show putting together three ones about one identical region.

As they told, nobody knew exactly because nobody had any experience about. So everybody answered what he thought to be good, and not what he knew to be good as he did not.

I always salute the intelligence recognizing its limits and hate ignorance pretending to know.

The fact is that long or short shows have the identical problematic with the difference: a short show not respecting this problematic, can be watched till the ane just because of its shortness. So, ignoring this problematic about long show, is ignoring about short shows too!

The situation is the same in this forum because here too, you are afraid of long duration and you are right to be afraid of: if I do an extrapolation of the structure of your shows to a long one, I assure you that after 10 minutes the audience is leaving the hall.

On beginning of march Ill give a lecture to my photo club on how to structure a show (a good one): bbdigital, you are friendly invited to assist and as I know your quality, after this for sure your shows will get a big improvement, but may be youll loose popularity. In that case I advice you to stay home: popularity pays much better than quality and you like to be paid for.

Let us go to some details.

If I take off a single picture from my show, it has no more sense. There are no repetitive pictures, all the pictures have a reason to be there.

Quality of pictures is perfect; I know, I assure you, when a picture has good quality and when not, and Im not used to put bad quality pictures on my shows.

About music is up to you: you can choose music to fit, or music to express. In this case I preferred the last choice.

My agony…. I hope my contructive comments are taken in the spirit they are given

Yes, they are taken in the spirit they are given and that why I answered like I did; otherwise Id have answered differently. And your agony is very clear to me as you downloaded 176 MB from my site

If you want to know who is telling all this, I can send youby mail a short summary about my photographic background.

And now I hope youll change the way of your criticisms to anybody else

[cici]

Hi Eric,

thank you very much for your aappreciation and almost for coming in my help: it helps not to feel alone against ennemy in situations like this one. And "ennemy" is the right word here.

As about borders, it's depending on a different screen resolution.

As about duration; for me it's good. I show is not long because its duration is more than 6 minutes. It's long when borrowing.

Friendly

[cici]

Well I for one have made the assumption that if a show is only posted on Beechbrook, it is there to share, feedback not required.

I'm not sure of this. People is posting on Beehbrook site when they have no site

However if a show is posted here on WinSoft, then the author is testing the water, they are inviting comment;

Perhaps, but you do not know. So why du you are so affirmative when you do not know?

... and offer constructive critique,

[i]I do not lke these words : behind them the ones are hiding their severity, the others theyr disappointment. I prefere "constructive comments" when done with constructive spirit.

[morturn]

HI cici thank you for your reply, I think you really need to read all of my post to understand the point I make, which is:

If people post their work on this forum, do they want comment, constructive or critique or other wise, or are they purely seeking adulation?

It would be nice to know this, so that I don’t have to bother posting if this is not what is required.

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi Sam

My comment about the length of your show, was aimed at posting it on this forum. Many of the members of the forum are camera club members and usually six minutes is normal for submitting a show and tolerance level.

For myself, the length of a show is determeined by the content & audience. I have a public show a week Monday which is 65 minutes long but split into two halves.

Are you going to tell us how you did the escalator effect?

Please don't get the wrong impression about this forum, there are more sympathisers than knockers.

BTW I think the word critique has a different inferance in English, it has been mentioned before on here by French members.

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1

Leyburn Charity Poster.pdf

[Barry Beckham]

my sincere apologies to Eric and Cici and in the interests of harmony, perhaps I will keep any comments to myself in future unless they are 100%l positive of course. It seems my initial misgivings about posting a comment where bang on tho. I should have trusted them and kept my mouth shut it seems.

[Bruss444]

Hello Sam, Would you be able to post a Mac version? I would love to see your presentation. Thanks Bill

[Freegle]

I'm not sure what the argument is about here but I thought this was fantastic. As a photographer of many years, the photos fitted the theme of leading lines and to me, were very well done. Was it really nine minutes? I had to watch it twice and time it the second time around. Even watching it for the second time and timing it, the time went very quickly and I was surprised it was nine minutes. A very enjoyable nine minutes too. The music to me was fine since the images reminded me of the architecture of church interiors. Fantastic images. Fantastic timing. Fantastic show. In the words of John Barrowman - Fantastic, Fantastic, Fantastic!

Put simply, I would love to do a show like this. Give me a few weeks.

Edit. Just watched for a third time and counted just 65 images. None of them repetitive as mentioned in the argument.

[jfa]

Everyone

Several years ago when I was just a new-boy here there was a discussion, (for which I have searched and cannot find), on the topic of posting work here and if one should comment in any form at all. The generally decided, (as I understand it), was only if comments were asked for, and then only constructive criticism also only if asked for. We seem to have moved away somewhat from that position and perhaps all should keep it in mind when posting or adding comments in the future.

Barry

For my part your comments are always welcome, (weather I agree with them or not), as are everyones here on this forum.

Eric

Playing the man is never good form.