Buying a Projector

[TonyFalla]

I would like some advice on the points I need to consider when purchasing a projector. I have looked at the web but the majority of sights seem intent on selling me a HD projector to watch movies not what I want.

Let me explain my situation, I have a desktop PC with a 1920 x 1200 monitor and an oldish Laptop with a 1024 x 768 screen, I also have access to a 1024 x 768 Projector. Unfortunately in the near future I will not have the use of this projector so I am considering buying one for myself.

I use the projector when I am giving talks to various clubs / societies, usually PowerPoint Presentations, demonstrating how programs work, e.g. Photoshop, PTE, etc, and PTE AV’s.

Up until now all my PTE work has been done with 1024 x 768 exe files so I have had no problems. I keep hearing and seeing comments that say I should be getting ready to go HD. I would hate to buy a new projector and then find that everybody says “you would have been better with a ****”.

Obviously price will be a consideration but I would prefer not to consider that initially, look and see what I should be aiming for and then adjust my aspirations according to price.

Can anybody given me any advice or point me at an articles which discuss this subject with respect to AV?

Regards

Tony

[davegee]

If you are going to move up you have two choices:

1400x1050

OR

1920x1080

The higher resolution model will do everything that the lower resolution model will do BUT if you want to show aspect ratios up to 16:9 then the 1400x1050 puts you at something of a disadvantage.

For instance a 16:9 show on the 1400x1050 is 1400x787/8 wheras a 16:9 show on the higher resolution is 1920x1080.

Higher resolution images = more definition and better sharpness.

For 4:3 shows there is not a lot of difference between them but for aspect ratios between 4:3 and 16:9 the 1920x1080 wins every time.

You will need a computer/laptop with DVI/HDMI, a GOOD, dedicated graphics card and plenty of memory and graphics RAM.

DaveG

[giljones]

If it helps. I bought a BENQ PB 2250 Digital Projector some time ago now and have been using it ever since. I use it to show PTE sequences to a wide variety of audiences without a problem. I'm not sure what their current model is but mine is both reliable and adequate. Gilbert Jones UK

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi Tony

This site sells projectors & all the other things you may need, if you look on the L/H side of the home page there is a yellow button labelled "Advice", have a read, then make your mind up. I bought my projector a Nobo X17 from ebay at a 1/4 of the retail price, found out later it was stolen. After a lot of anxious moments and help to the police, Nobo allowed me to keep it. One of the main things you need to look for is bulb life & cost. Some manufacturers will provide a new bulb if yours fails. Some bulbs cost 75% of a replacement projector.

http://www.projectorpoint.co.uk/index.htm

Yachtsman1

[Igor]

I'm quite happy with my home Epson TW2000 (1080UB in USA). FullHD 1920x1080, HDMI, LCD, very deep black color and flawless color reproduction, flicker-free picture.

[TonyFalla]

Thanks for all the advice the information provided has been really useful, I can see the point that DaveG is making and would have to take that into consideration if I decided to move to a 16:9 format from my current 4:3 format.

I found the link that Yachtsman provided very useful, their advice explained to me why whenever I was doing a search on the web for HD projectors I kept getting taken to Home Cinema web pages. Another very useful part of the site Yachtsman pointed me to was their price list. It is very simply laid out, something useful for a somebody like me, with a section for each manufacturer showing model, brightness, contrast, resolution, weight and, of course price.

What it basically came down to was if I want a 1920 x 1200 projector currently they do not fulfil my needs. There are 2 main problems as I see it, these projectors have been designed for Home Cinema use therefore they tend to be heavy, I think the lightest I saw was 5 kgs (The projector I use at the moment is 1.9kgs). The second problem is that they are designed for use in a darkened room and so the basic models are not very bright, 1200 – 1400 lumens. There are brighter models but they are even heavier as well as costing more.

From what I can see there are very few projectors that are of the 1400 x 1050 format that DaveG mentioned, mainly from Canon. They are still heavy but are brighter, however I have a recollection of problems being mentioned on the Forum with these projectors when running PTE AV’s.

It therefore appears to me that currently I have a choice of two types of Projector a XGA (1024 x 768) or a WXGA (1366 x 768), the majority of which appear to be both light and bright. If I do go for WXGA then I can experiment with a 16:9 format at 1366 x 768.

Again thank you all very much for your advice it has been most helpful, I will now investigate XGA/WXGA projectors taking into consideration such things as Bulb Life / Cost, Warranty, Price, etc.

Tony

[davegee]

Tony,

In recent side by side tests of a 1920x1080 Optima projector against the Canon 1400x1050 the results from the Canon were thought to be too bright/harsh/contrasty compared to the lower output from the Optima.

The Optima was chosen.

I can't see the point in using a 1366x768 projector - it allows for aspect ratios greater than 4:3 without loss of resolution but other than that is not a step up in any other way. "The same quality - but wider".

There are members of this forum (other than Igor) who have been using 1920x1080 for some time - I would love to hear any comments they have?

DaveG

[TonyFalla]

Dave

Is this the Optoma HD800-X you are talking about which has a brightness of 1200 Lumens. What were the light conditions in the room that the test was carried out in, ie with ambient light or darkened. I have looked at this, it is one of the lightest 1080p projectors but is still 4.5kgs, I also have concerns that Optoma have only got a 12 month warranty.

I am coming to the conclusion that a 1080p does not fit my purpose as they are not portable, I haven't found one yet that comes with a carrying case or offers one as an extra. AV is only part of my use of a projector, a lot of it is Powerpoint Presentations, Demonstarting to people how to use software for which I wouldn't have thought HD was a requirement.

As I said when I first raised this topic I still do my AV's at 1024 x 768, I don't think I have ever seen a HD AV so I don't know what the difference in quality is. I also have to admit that personally I am not that keen on 16:9 format one of the reasons I have never done an AV in this format.

From what you are saying it looks as though I would be best to save my money at the moment and buy a straightforward XGA projector and perhaps consider HD when, or if, they become more portable.

Tony

[JRR]

Tony:

In addition to the good advice above, you might want to check out:

Projector Central

[Lin Evans]

Another consideration which we haven't seemed to discuss yet is how useful a 1080p (16:9 aspect ratio) is to the photographer. I realize that video cameras are moving in this direction, but digital still cameras are still well established with 3:2 or 4:3 aspect ratios and that is something which is not likely to change in the near future.

Because there are literally millions if not billions of photographs both digital and analog out there and millions more being taken each day which are captured in 3:2 or 4:3 aspect ratio, why are projectors being manufactured to display 16:9 aspect ratio at 1920x1080 (approximately 2 megapixels) rather than the much more useful (in my opinion) 1600x1200 pixel resolution which is also about two megapixels but more useful to the photographer.

Are these projectors primarily aimed at the video camcorder user rather than the still photographer? Yes, one dSLR, the Canon 5D Mark II, can capture video in 1080p while the Nikon D90 does video in 720p. However, this trend is not something which every camera manufacturer embraces, nor is it all that great from what I'm seeing in terms of versatility, etc. A number of camcorders can now capture 1080p and this would seem to be the market which projector people are catering to.

I believe my experience is shared by the vast majority of photographers in that I dislike trying to crop my images to fit an aspect ratio requiring me to cut off significant portions of my subject whether done by post capture crop or by alignment in PTE. This wrecks many photos and forces me to either shoot very wide thus lowering my usable resolution (throwing away pixels) or carefully pick and choose from among thousands of my existing photos for only those amenable to a crop to 16:9.

Bottom line is that I won't be purchasing any projector unless manufacturers produce a projector which can not only handle the new 16:9 aspect ratio which seems to be forced on the consumer, but also HD resolutions such as 1600x1200 which fit the use model of the still photographer. In addition, manufacturers need to fix the issues of jerkiness in horizontal pans. If I can pan a wide panorama smoothly on an LCD monitor or on a CRT monitor, then I want to be able to do this on an LCD projector or no sale for me.

As for photo clubs, I would recommend budgeting for a large screen plasma display rather than an expensive LCD projector which in no way equals the image quality....

Just my thoughts....

Lin

[davegee]

Lin,

I would agree with you that, for the photographer, a 1600x1200 or an 1800x1200 projector would make more sense.

However, when comparing 1024x768, 1400x1050 and 1920x1080 I think that from the point of view of resolution/aspect ratio the latter format makes the most sense.

Many photographers, like yourself, are likely to want to keep the 3:2 aspect ratio which the cameras offer (DSLR).

To use that aspect ratio on the 1024x768 and 1400x1050 projectors you cannot use the full resolution height of the projector - black lines top and bottom.

With the 1920x1080 the 3:2 photographer can utilise the FULL resolution height of the projector in a 1620x1080 resolution (3:2) show.

To sum up, the resolutions available for 3:2 shows are:

Projector Resolution 1024x768 = 1023x682

Projector Resolution 1400x1050 = 1398x466

Projector Resolution 1920x1080 = 1620x1080

For aspect ratios of 4:3 or less (i.e. 3:2 portrait format) there is little difference between 1400x1050 and 1920x1080 (30 pixels difference in the height).

For aspect ratios greater than 4:3 (i.e. 3:2 or 16:9) the 1920x1080 gives a decided advantage because use of the full resolution height is possible.

Tony,

There is a new Optoma 1920x1080 either on the market or due very soon - take a look at that.

DaveG

[TonyFalla]

In some ways this post has just shown up my ignorance of how PTE software fits in with the various pieces of hardware. I am beginning to see the point DaveG is making about 1920 x 1600, if I have this it means that I get better resolution even if I did stick to 4:3 format.

By the way Lin on this side of the pond I can only find one 1600 x 1200 projector, its not very portable weighing in at 35.5 Kgs (78 pounds) and costs just less than £20000!!!

I suppose I had never thought about it until I started to look at this subject, but if I play an AV on my desktop the screen is filled, with, if necessary, black bands either on the sides or top and bottom. I presume something generates the extra pixels. I thought the same would happen if you played an AV at a lower resolution something would loose the extra pixels and it would still fill the screen.

Until the other day at a club meeting we had an AV that was 1280 x 1024, when it was played on the laptop parts of the side of the images were missing, with the results mirrored on the projector. The resolution on the laptop was set at 1024 x 768, resetting the resolution to 1280 x 1024 and the AV played fine on the laptop screen and appeared to be working fine on the projector. Until I looked closely when I noticed that although on the Laptop the 5:4 was displaying fine, the projector result still showed the full image but in 4:3 format. The projector is an XGA Epson EMP83.

This has raised with me the question what is controlling what we see from the projector, is it the PTE software or is it something in the set up between the PC/Laptop and the Projector. I ask because if I did take DaveG’s advice and get a 1920 x 1200 projector would I find that a 4:3 AV show would be projected at 16:9. What do I have to take into consideration when buying a projector to avoid this problem?

Dave - Any idea when this new Optoma will be released?

Tony

[davegee]

Tony,

If you buy a 1920x1080 the likelihood is that you will also get a new (more powerful) laptop with a matching resolution.

Your image sizes will have increased putting more pressure on your RAM / Graphics etc.

Your new laptop will need to have a DVI or HDMI (prefered) connection to the projector and will need to be set at 1920x1080 resolution.

If the laptop screen's native resolution is NOT 16:9 (1920x1080) chances are you won't be able to see the laptop screen and the projected image at the same time.

However, the projected image will then be ACTUAL pixels meaning that if you construct a show (whatever aspect ratio) with 1080 high resolution there will be no interpolation taking place anywhere in the chain.

This is OPTIMUM and what you should be striving for.

If you have a true 1920x1080 LCDTV (check the manual) and have a laptop with DVI or HDMI output (or could borrow one) I would strongly advise trying that combination before buying the projector. It will not help with your shows to clubs etc but at least it will get you accustomed to what your requirements would be if you decided on a 1920x1080 projector.

The new Optoma is (I think) the HD80X or similar.

http://www.royjowetthomecinema.co.uk/produ...-Projector.html

DaveG

[Almark]

I have just bought the Mitzu HC5500, full HD. I'll let you know how it works when it arrives.

[davegee]

Tony,

Your 4:3 show would not be stretched but you might not want to see your desktop behind so you could either create a 16:9 black menu slide which would hide the background or create your new shows in 16:9 format background with the 4:3 show up front.

DaveG

[Maureen]

Hi Tony

You have already seen the Optoma 1920 px by 1080 px projector when you came to Waves.

They also had a new Alienware laptop built to match it, etc

Wantage AV Group and Wessex DI Group have also bought new Optoma 1920px by 1080px projectors and we are delighted with the projection and results.

We also showed some HD AVs at Waves (maybe you weren't there when they projected them.

Robert, my husband, has just created a new sequence using his Xmas present (Canon 5D Mk2) which projects beautifully on the HD system and looks amazing on a 50ins HD television too.

When you project you need to set your laptop / computer up correctly to clone the image and also decide which resolution takes priority if necessary.

Sounds like some didn't set that up if you saw the edges of the laptop screen.

Hope to see you again at Waves one day.

Best Wishes

Maureen

[davegee]

Maureen,

You said:

"When you project you need to set your laptop / computer up correctly to clone the image and also decide which resolution takes priority if necessary."

Could you elaborate a little on that? How?

In your case it sounds as thought the laptop resolution/aspect ratio matches the projector - what happens with a different laptop with a different resolution/aspect ration?

Thanks,

DaveG

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Maureen,

You said:

"When you project you need to set your laptop / computer up correctly to clone the image and also decide which resolution takes priority if necessary."

Could you elaborate a little on that? How?

In your case it sounds as thought the laptop resolution/aspect ratio matches the projector - what happens with a different laptop with a different resolution/aspect ration?

Thanks,

DaveG

Hi Dave

I know what Maureen is getting at, my laptop's native res is 1280x1024, my projector is XGA 1024x 768. When I connect the two together, the proj' doesn't show what the LT is showing until I set the res to 1024x768. Two ways to do this, 1. using keystrokes, on my Samsung FN + F4 brings up 4 screen icons one of which is clone screen, just press F4 until the clone screen is highlighted and the LT goes into 1024x768 automatically. The other way is obviously in control panel display screen. I've always used the clone method, however, the other day I switched on the LT before the Proj' and the res set automatically, maybe SP3 has allowed this. My other LT a Sony Viao sets automatically.

Eric

[TonyFalla]

Sorry Dave I hate to admit this but my TV is at least 12 years old and definitely not LCD. I’m afraid I am not much of a gadget man and don’t have a lot of up to date electronic gadgets. My PC is the only thing that is anything like modern and that is now 18 months old. From what you are saying it looks as though I will also have to explore getting a new Laptop as well, I will have to see what her who holds the purse strings says!!!

I don’t understand your comments about seeing the background, does projection do something different? When I run a 1024 x 768 PTE Exe on my desk top the 1920 x 1200 monitor the AV fills the height of the screen with a black border each side. I experimented and create a small PTE AV with 1920 x 1080 images and ran this on my 1024 x 768 laptop, the AV filled the width of the screen with a black border top and bottom. In both cases the 4:3 and 16:9 format were retained.

Maureen I will have a look at the Optoma Projector at the next WAVS meeting. I agree with Dave’s comments I would be interested in learning what you need to do set up the laptop and projector so they are compatible.

Tony

[davegee]

Hi Eric,

I copy what you say, but in the case that Maureen is talking about the connection between the computer and projector SHOULD be aHDMI/DVI and I suspect that the procedures are a little different.

They certainly are when connecting my Vaio to my TV via HDMI but my Vaio is not the same resolution as my TV.

DaveG