Barry Beckham

I have just watched a slide show that stands head and shoulders over anything I have seen for quite a while. It has animation and some special effects, but they work. They work because they are superbly done, they are added in moderation and in keeping with the overall quality of the show. The show also tells a story and I didn't need any commentary to help that along. The sequence captures atmosphere and some emotion too and it filled my PC screen. It was impressive, not just because of size, but due to the quality of the images, the choices of images and the whole audio visual experience. The soundtrack was perfect, balanced and right in keeping with the subject. There were a couple of long zooms out that generally I don't care much for, but I don't like them because all those I have seen go on and on and on and on. This didn't, the balance here was just right and again in keeping with the images and the message the author was putting accross. It was evident that tender loving care was put into making this sequence and it shows. The transitions were varied, but the right choice was made every time and even the special effect between some images worked too, again due to the subject and the treatment of the slide show by the author. This is what I want to see on the PTE forum, something that can inspire me to sit up and take notice, not reach for the escape button because the animation is tacky and out of place. If this sequence does not win some accreditation then there ain't no justice. It probably already has. Made with PTE of course La Creation by Jean-Charles Pizolatto - If I had a hat I would take it off to you Jean a super show.

Lin My appologies I never picked up on this thread, just followed your link on the other one. I am not used to them moving around and wasn't paying attention. Please move the other post here if you wish. However, we may be at cross purposes here This post was only for Barry and in regards to an ongoing discussion about the fact that people are using "animation" in their slideshows. These are "NOT" shows which have been (to my knowledge) entered in any competition nor do they represent in any way my opinion of what constitutes either a quality or non-quality slideshow. They are randomly selected shows representing what users of competing products (Proshow and MemoriesOnTV, etc.) are asking for and doing with animation and effects. I understand that PTE has to move with the competition and I have never had any issues with that. I am not against all animation for some daft reason. What I said, or tried to say was that what I have seen in some animations are tacky and do nothing for the slide show appeal and I asked where these techniques were being used, not in the context of competing software, I am not interested in that. You can split hairs about PSG or PSP but the fact remains a butterfly jerking accross the screen in a stills AV is WRONG. If it must be done at least use PTE where it will be smooth. I keep saying this, but my interest is what I would call pictorial AV and the vast majority of slide shows posted here and beachbrook are that type of show. If the aim of an individual is to reach a wider audience and try to appeal to that audience, some of what I see has no place in that slide show. I don't believe that is just a narrow view I hold and that is why I said. Point me to where I can see this sort of technique used, but perhaps I should of qualified that and said show me where this technique is being used in any slide show that is above average or has been credited in some way.

Well, I am ploughing through a few of these shows, but I have not seen anything yet which stands out and why are they all ProShow gold llinks? If I wanted to watch a butterfly jerking it's way accross the screen I would use Proshow gold myself. I will keep watching, but my resolve is slipping a little. Later addition I have watched a number of these shows and I am beat, they are mostly personal slide shows of family celebrations that have no appeal outside that family. and some of the special effects like the butterfly was tacky and added nothing to the slide show. That is the trouble, get it right and animation enhances, get it wrong and it really kills the appeal.

Yes I am fully aware that as I get older I may get out of touch, but I know what I find appealing and what I don't and I also realize that as you get older you get set in your ways. Taking that all into account I cannot force myself to like something that I feel has little place in AV. When I mention AV, I say that in the belief that 99% of what is posted in and around this site are pictorial sequences, not instructional or tutorials. Different rules may apply to those. Yes, please point me in the direction of the best AV you know about that uses these types of effects. I will be the first to admit I have made a bad mistake if I realize I have. I am not stubborn and I have no problem with saying ooops, made a mistake there. We see loads of whoops of delight over certain animation effects, so, if they are so popular with people why don't we see them used? I don't have a problem will all animation, but these effects that try to mimic video are a disaster in my view They are what I would describe as tacky and unbelievable. Please educate me into what I am missing because I still think the bog standard fade is a very difficult act to beat? If I have it wrong I want to know what I am missing.

I am of a similar feeling to Almark and I believe that while many of these animation effects can have a place, when used they generally exclude any chance of capturing a mood in a slide show. In my opinion of course. We live in a visual world where we can easily see the earth rotating around the sun and lots more besides, in superb quality too. The Hollywood movies create these effects all the time and they are very convincing and we have become accustomed to them. It's natural then for us to compare what we have seen at the movies or elswhere with what we see here with regard animation. There is no comparison. So, as clever as it may be, any animation that shows the earth revolving around the sun will be compared to the best we have ever seen and then a PTE version comes up a little short. Now I say that as a PTE enthusiast and one who has seen some really clever animation demos. So where are all these effects used, I never seem to download a slide show and see any, why is that? Could it me that it's because they don't add anything to a pictorial slide show and 99 times out of a 100, that is what people are making, a pictorial slide show. Now I am really going to throw the cat amongst the pigeons. A lot of what I see appears tacky, unconvincing and has no place in 99 of those 100 shows. (Ducks quickly and takes cover )

Anyone who has the opportunity to watch this show on a large flat screen monitor, first in it's original version and then this revised HD one would instantly be sold on this HD resolution. The issues aside that Eric raised in another thread about PC's that can't handle anything above 1024*768 aside, this is the way to go. Soon 1024*768 will be like the Dodo....dead! I fully agree with DaveG about the line and for exactly the same reasons, but even without the line, for me this had more impact, yet we are only talking about size. There was a time when I would have said size isn't everything and of course it isn't, but all things being equal its hard to beat.

Colhill I don't think the forum members are being very kind to you. Many must have downloaded and viewed your slide show, but only one person has made a comment for you. I am going to suggest a reason why and try to give some constructive comments as we go. Many people are uncomfortable in giving any feedback unless the feedback they give can be all positive, so rather then say something that may not be taken in the spirit is is intended they don't comment at all. If this is your first attempt at a slide show, then your on the right track, the music matched the images fine. The show is a great record of what looked like a great holiday. You were there, you experienced the sites, the smells the food and all those emotions were wrapped up in that holiday feeling. When I view your slide show, none of those emotions are there and what is left is a great record for you and your family, but with limited appeal for me A slide show does not have to be full of masterpieces, but if you want it to have appeal to a wider audience, then it does need something more. Your images are a series of snap shot records of your holiday and while important to you, they are less interesting to others, or me in this instance. A slide show with wider appeal does need some great images in the show, especially when presented to photographic enthusiasts. So, what do you need to do to improve for the future. Think about the slide show you will make at the time you shoot your images and get as much variety as possible. Remember that outings on a boat with a crowd will have limited appeal to others, the countryside and seascapes will have much more appeal, but go for some detail shots too. Variety is the spice of life they say. You are always going to be up against it a bit with regards quality images in a country that has such strong lighting conditions for much of the time. There are tools in image editing programs that will help you deal with those harsh highlights, which really do kill off a lot of appeal in some images. Try to shoot more of your AV images earlier in the day or towards the late afternoon when the sun is sinking and the lighting generally more kind to us. If your going to use sound effects, then fade them out gently at the end as your slide show ends rather abruptly and that can spoli the moment a bit. Maureen made a great point in another thread that we sometimes forget. A slide show can be improved by taking out images and making the show shorter. You had some images included that really should have been removed. One looks like a building site of a walkway and try to avoid too many that are the same. ie 3 views of what is the same subject. Straighten those horizons as Dave says and see what digital skills you can develope to improve your images. It is possible to improve many of your images, but of course it takes a little learning, but it is great fun too. You can't be an expert on your first attempt and full marks for putting your first attempts up for all to see. That takes quite a bit of courage and it is a shame that more members havn't given you some honest feedback. You will be glad to hear the next one you make will be easier and better.

Almark Maureens pointers above are spot on in my view. Especially the length of a sequence.

Almark For reasons I don't know it was a battle to get your show to download. First I got no such web site when I clicked the links, then later it downloaed but would not play, but third time lucky and I have now viewed it. My personal view is that the border is OK, but I think you have it too thick and too white. I think a 1 pixel line is adequate and often if you make the line grey instead of white it still does the job, but then just appears more delicate and will not compete with the images. The slide show was very good, a place I would like to visit myself, very haunting around the volcanic areas.

I think I understand a bit clearer now. Most people always work from copies of images inside PTE, so any renaming, never affects the original. Good luck with your project

Ernest Do I have this right? You have an image in PTE called RedFlower.jpg..............If you want to use this image more than once in your slide show there is no need to change the name, you can use it as many times as you want and the images can all have the same name. I seem to get the impression that you want to maybe change one version of redflower and then rename that leaving the original. If you do that inside PTE you will rename the original and any number of copies you have used in your show. The way to do this is to open the image up in your image editor and change the name of the file when you save the file. Now PTE will see 2 separate images Am I understanding your query correctly?

None of your links appear to be working here

I did raise this point some time ago after I got fedup with people coming to me and saying I like your slide show, but the AV group would never accept borders. Maureen gave me a bit of a telling off at the time, because I think I mentioned that it may have come from the RPS. However, there is no doubt in my mind that many people are influenced by this view and believe any lines should not be used. I suppose we could argue this till we are all blue in the face and we could out it down to personal preference. However, when I ask these people why, I don't think I have had one who could give an answer. Their views come from what others had told them. So, why don't we apply common sence and make up our own mind, rather than allowing some know all to do it for us. If we place images on a black background and the edges of those images sometimes run to black the overall effect doesn't look too good. It almost looks like someone has taken a bite out of the corner. Almark, I hope you don't mind me using your images as a demo. I think a thin line is far better. When we think of images where there is white on the edge and we present them on a white border, we have the same issues. So, shouldn't the answer to this be, lines are right when its right to apply them and in Almarks case they look OK to me. I would prefer thinner lines, but that is just preference. AV is all about presentation and I think this issue is a valid part of that presentation. Is it just me that feels that we can be pushed down an accepted path by the "Establishment" Most of what we choose is a preference and I am not sure it is right to ever hear, a line round an image is not acceptable. As Almark says, much of his audience approved of it.

I can't quite understand what the fascination with laptops is, especially when bought as a main machine. (ie, not bought because transportation was important) Years ago I discovered that I could get a desktop with more power and far cheaper than a laptop and I have used it for demos ever since. Add to that the keyboard of a laptop is small, the screen small, the power often isn't there. Give me more power and I am interested, but it has to be a better price than $4000 for a laptop. Then I suppose that even if you owned one of these super computers and created some fast complex animation, many people would not be able to view it anyway because they would still be on much lower power machines. When most of us visit a camera club we go their by car because we need projectors, speakers, screen sometimes, so I took the view that if I am doing that I might as well take a desktop. If I had to fly somewhere, then it may be difficult to board the plane with my desktop under my arm

But will you be able to afford it Eric

I have been asked a number of times about WMA files and why won't they open in Audacity and I wonder if people get hung up on this because when Windows Media Player is used to rip music from a domestic CD, the is automatically converted to a WMA file. However, if you go into the rip options you can select Mp3 and even the quality you want. Once done all these aggravations of converting files becomes a thing of the past. Well for me it has

The single most important part of sound recording for me these days is cleaning up the sound after it is recorded. Whether that is commentary for an AV or tutorial commentary and from whatever source program. There always seems to be noise present and some of that may be the PC on the floor beside me. Using the noise reduction options inside the sound editing software makes the biggest difference and perhaps using those options correctly it may be possible to use any reasonable quality microphone. When I discovered this I had no idea how good it was.

Getting a quality recording if often quite difficult I think. I had to purchase quite a good microphone before I could get a quality I was happy with, but an aquaintance I once visited was getting superb quality from an off the shelp PC Mike. I would say, try the web cam mike, but don't be too surprised if that doesn't return really good quality.

Isabel I am glad the tutorials are meeting your needs and you already have been given the answer to zooming in on an image, but here is something to consider. There are those who feel movement such as a zoom adds interest to an image and those who feel it doesn't. It probably depends on the style of show you are putting together. If your aiming to capture a mood or an emotion in your show, then animation and effects can have a detremental effect. (in my view of course, others will feel differently about this) If your looking to create a slide show that may be described more as a presentation, then animation and zooms are great. We see them every day on TV If you are aiming to capture a mood or an emotion in your show, I would say be careful when zooming into or out of an image as many of the examples I have seen are way over the top. (in my view of course, others feel differently about this too) Zooms that go on too long can be boring, we have already seen the image on screen, so to slowly zoom way into one part is often unecessary. Keep your zooms/animation delicate for these types of slide shows and you may find you can have your cake and eat it. In other words retain charm, appeal and avoid the pitfalls. For a slide show that could be described more as a presentaion, then it is an entirely different thing. The white line inclusion within PTE is a great addition, but of course you have to visit every image in your slide show to apply it and if you change your mind later it is rather a pain to visit every image in the show again to change it. As you have discovered, a Png frame/line is quick to apply and it is changed easily in one go no matter how many images your show contains. I hope in time we can choose a line or animation from within PTE and apply that to every image in our show in one operation.

I raised this some time ago and would like to see a button to toggle used images on and off.

Dom It all worked fine on my Dell 1920*1200 screen and as Lumenlux says, nice images too. If your going to demonstrate anything it's always great to see images with quality and appeal.

You will be pleased to hear that I have been for treatment and I am completely cured The doctor made me aware that while many people may offer slide shows for 'comment', what they are really asking for is approval. So, now I know this I can avoid causing any upset in future, you will see a new me Only wonderful glowing comments and if you believe that, you will believe anything

Gilio You do not appear to be getting a great deal of feedback and I am sure I am not the only one to watch your new show. This sort of engineering project would inspire anyone, but I wonder if there is enough variety in the show for it to have a wider appeal. I could not help thinking that you have presented a documentary sort of subject in a pictorial way and I am not sure it is quite coming together. Perhaps the approach here would be better staying with the documentary angle and adding some commentary. While I watched I thought where exactly is this? why is it being built? when will it be finished? A few facts and figures would have helped enormously I am surprised no-one has commented yet and perhaps that is because they don't quite know what to say.

Igor I have created a few Mac shows and all the feedback is good apart from any thin lines applied. which seem to be lost along the bottom edge only This has now happened on a number of different Mac's, is that something that needs a look?

Lin As far as I am aware my Canon is equipped with auto sensor cleaning and has the filter, but I stll see plenty of dust, so theory and practice not quite coming together perhaps. I tried the mapping too and that didn't completely eradicate dust. I don't find it a problem on still images and was just wondering how 5d owners coped