A suggestion about titles

[Barry Beckham]

None of these are bad ideas, but a few thoughts

Save your slide show images to level 6 jpeg and most shows will not be much over 30MB, then perhaps they will reach a wider audience if some are reluctant to download the same show at 70MB. Having said that downloads can trunddle on in the background as we do other things, so I have never quite seen an issue here. Start the download when you are going out or watching TV and it's done when you come back, perhaps!

What does it matter what resolution the show was made in? The recipient will play it back on what ever monitor they have. A 1920*1200 show will play back on all lower resolutions fine. Those made at 1024*768 or within those sizes should have the box ticked in project options so their image quality isn't shot to pieces when the images are expanded to fill a larger machine.

Many moons ago when it was more important to do so than now, I did suggest that members may temporarily change their screen resolution so they could view a slide show as the author intended. You would had thought I had suggested that members had an arm amputated judging by the response. I seem to recall being told in no uncertain terms by some that they would never do that and it was the authors responsibility to deliver the show so that all could view it.

Shouldn't an AV sequence stand alone and be judged as it is presented. If information is vital to the show, should it not be a part of that show?

[davegee]

"If information is vital to the show, should it not be a part of that show"

That's exactly what I said above.

As Barry says - if a show is CORRECTLY made with all the right boxes ticked, it is not a problem. However in the case of a show where the right boxes are NOT ticked (accidentally or through lack of knowledge), having the resolution figures would allow the viewer to know whether the show is being seen at the correct resolution or not.

You cannot make people do these things but you can indicate good practice and hope that some of it will stick.

Once again, I do not suggest that this should be adopted for shows intended for competition where it would perhaps not be appropriate.

DG

[jfa]

Shouldn't an AV sequence stand alone and be judged as it is presented. If information is vital to the show, should it not be a part of that show?

Barry

No problems with that statement in general I agree.

However in agreeing that some information should be provided by the author here, I was thinking along the lines of an author who is asking for comments/help to improve their AV.

If we know the intended audience and/or the purpose of the AV it is possible to better target our assistance/comments.

If the maker is not getting the technical side of the work right some technical details may be useful in pointing them in the right direction.

[Ken Cox]

what is the problem with putting a full description of the show in the body of the thread

and

as Bill "cottage" Hines stated there is a place for a description but it does not get used too often which is kind of sad as he has given a lot of his time to make his site informative and user friendly

ken

[Almark]

Barry, the purpose of this suggestion is to encourage folk to select their downloads (as a result of the information provided) and to offer feedback.

[Barry Beckham]

Almark

Yes, I understand the purpose, I was just making some observations.

I always find it funny when I hear a show will not be downloaded because it will take too long. Its not like waiting for a bus is it. Just click the download and forget it for a while. As I said before, you don't have to sit there waiting!

You can always see the file size on the download window anyway.

I fail to see how any of that information helps the feedback. You either offer it or you don't. How the show was made and for what purpose has no bearing on how a viewer sees it.

[colin hill]

I have read all these remarks from the beginning of the topic, which started out about a comment on Maureen's show and a suggestion by Mark about the description of the show. There have been a lot of comments and counter suggestions, some I agree with and some I disagree with.

One thing that I have learnt from this excellent forum is that we all come from different parts of the world, different backgrounds and we cannot please everyone or "make the horse drink water".

The size of the download seems to be a problem. I agree with Barry, one does not have to sit in front of their pc whilst waiting for the download to complete. I am very aware of download size, especially as in my country, you are limited to a certain amount of bandwidth per month and the speeds are not very fast. However, this does not deter me from downloading 70mg if I feel the show is worth seeing.

I have not belonged to this forum for long, but have tried to be active in sharing my humble efforts to the forum members. I do agree that it is nice if one can see some sort of description and background to the show. Bill's Beechbrook.com, as mentioned has a place for this and before I download, I always go to the remarks section and try and obtain some sort of background.

In my last two or three shows, I have provided as much as possible in the hope that the forum members can decide, but despite this, I still obtain very little feedback on my shows and very few downloads. I have also introduced other information in my ending titles, whether this is of help or not, I do not know.

Having said that, I must ask myself,are members really taking note of any additional information that has been provided? I agree whole heartedly with Barry's comments. "I fail to see how any of that information helps the feedback" I have provided the information in the past with very little feedback!

Colin

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Have you asked for feedback???

Yachtsman1

[colin hill]

Have you asked for feedback???

Yachtsman1

Yes I have and welcome any comment

Colin

[Guest Yachtsman1]

Hi Colin had a look at your farm show, unfortunately I couldn't get the station show to load, could be my browser change, BT has just died so I am using Explorer 8 and probably need to adjust some settings.

Anyway, I think the lack of feedback is probably because there is not a lot to say, pictures OK music ok but nothing special, only fault I could pick up, the zooms were abrupt not smooth.

After the recent kerfuffle about the Belgian show I think possibly people are reluctant to comment unless there are glaring problems.

Regards Eric

Yachtsman1

[colin hill]

Hi Eric,

Thank you so much for your comments. I do appreciate what you are saying. I have learnt so much from this forum and I suppose people are just trying to improve matters for all concerned.

Take care,

Best regards,

Colin

[Barry Beckham]

Colin

Unfortunately giving feedback is a very risky business as I found to my cost recently. It is my view that feedback will be freely given if that feedback can be positive, but if you have some observations to make that are not all positive, many members will not comment at all. Some will when others have already cleared the ground by saying the same thing before them. I don't very often make comment any more for that very reason and others must have picked up the same thoughts as me.

Some do want genuine feedback, some want adulation and acceptance. The trouble is in a forum like this, the author of the comments have no way of knowing until the stuff hits the fan and dummies are thrown out of the pram.

It is not easy to give constructive comments to someone you don't know using just the written word. If they want to feel insulted, the words you have used can easily be found to justify it.

The sad fact is that it is rare to really get honest constructive feedback because there is always that concern in the back of your mind that affects what is being said. When you think about it, constructive positive feedback is also needed as that helps a lot, but it is never given. When something is good, we should go out of our way to explain why because that can be even more helpful.

By telling the audience in advance why the show was made and to what audience is was targeted sounds far too much like an excuse to me. Sort of hedging your bets in case the show is not as well received as you hoped. In any case since when do members make a show with a target audience in mind?

[Almark]

Barry,

If 'User1' has produced a slide-show for his walking club, or 'User2' has produced a slide-show for submission to a AV Camera Club Competition, then clearly they will except different feedback. It is not an excuse, but merely a way of informing others of the potential audience.

If this forum intends to offer genuine and sincere feedback, then I must repeat, that the knowing who the potential audience is, is essential. Otherwise, such feedback will be generic.

However, I fully agree that members of this forum will only give detailed feedback, if they have received such in the past. So perhaps, we need to add "All feedback welcome", or AFW to the description? And then encourage members to offer feedback when AFW is asked for?

I must again go back to the purpose of the forum, is it just look and see? Or do members want to learn from the feedback of other PTE AV users?

[Barry Beckham]

If 'User1' has produced a slide-show for his walking club, or 'User2' has produced a slide-show for submission to a AV Camera Club Competition, then clearly they will except different feedback. It is not an excuse, but merely a way of informing others of the potential audience.

I dunno about that, but then why submit the same slide show to the premier PTE forum. I don't change my approach whether I am making a slide show for the local walking club or something for myself.

If this forum intends to offer genuine and sincere feedback, then I must repeat, that the knowing who the potential audience is, is essential. Otherwise, such feedback will be generic.

No, I am not sure I agree. What makes a slide show good , bad or indifferent does not change depending on who the author "aimed it at".

However, I fully agree that members of this forum will only give detailed feedback, if they have received such in the past. So perhaps, we need to add "All feedback welcome", or AFW to the description? And then encourage members to offer feedback when AFW is asked for?

I must again go back to the purpose of the forum, is it just look and see? Or do members want to learn from the feedback of other PTE AV users?

I don't know about that either, you will have to ask the members, but my gut reaction from what I have seen and learned over 35 years in Camera clubs is that some will welcome constructive criticism, all will say they welcome it, but some will only ever welcome positive comment. They are not generally interested in how their show has been received by others. What they want is acceptance and when that doesn't come the hissy fits will start.

I applaude your intentions, but you cannot please all of the people all of the time and I don't think you can take an "Art" - AV is an art. Then try to judge it like a motor race, formula 1, formula Ford and all of the other levels they have.

The slide show is either good or it's not and there will be varying views on that. We all have what I call a visual IQ, some are not as high as others so what appears to be a great piece of work to one person can seen as far less so to another. I don't profess to have all the answers, but hiding behind the fact that " well this slide show was only made for the local pigeon fanciers" is not something I feel comfortable with.

Perhaps it’s that issue we seem to see a lot of these days, that instead of applauding excellence we try to dumb things down in case we offend someone.

[LumenLux]

I don't know about that either, you will have to ask the members, but my gut reaction from what I have seen and learned over 35 years in Camera clubs is that some will welcome constructive criticism, all will say they welcome it, but some will only ever welcome positive comment. They are not generally interested in how their show has been received by others. What they want is acceptance and when that doesn't come the hissy fits will start.

I'm certain Barry, that you have met enough people and experienced exactly what you describe. Having just now posted a "plea" for more feedback on my sequence posted a fortnight ago, I'm not sure how to convince people that I really do welcome learning from others - even if all I learn is that person's likes or dislikes. How can I let viewers know that I don't just profess to want honest comment? Sure, I too enjoy acceptance, but I couldn't produce a hissy fit if I tried.

The slide show is either good or it's not and there will be varying views on that. We all have what I call a visual IQ, some are not as high as others so what appears to be a great piece of work to one person can seen as far less so to another. I don't profess to have all the answers, but hiding behind the fact that " well this slide show was only made for the local pigeon fanciers" is not something I feel comfortable with.

I agree with you, but this is not something that should be a deterrent to posting shows and giving/receiving comments and discussion.

Perhaps it’s that issue we seem to see a lot of these days, that instead of applauding excellence we try to dumb things down in case we offend someone.

I hope this is not the case.