Zoom Animation-Causes Shifting-Change Default

[goddi]

Greetings,

The problem is that I have noticed if you select a Zoom animation (and it includes some Panning), for example, for an image and you only change the Zoom's setting (Linear, Accelerate, Slow Down or Smooth), the animation can cause an unwanted slight shifting of the image during the animation. This problem is explained more clearly with an example in the following posting:

http://www.picturest...ng-to-left-bug/

The solution, giving by Lin, is to set the Pan, Zoom and Rotate to the same linearity or non-linearity parameter. This shifting problem is solved if all three animations choices (Pan, Zoom and Rotate) are set to the same parameter (Linear, Accelerate, Slow Down or Smooth). This does solve the problem.

My suggestion is the make the default so that when one of the animation (Pan, Zoom or Rotate) parameters (Linear, etc.) is changed for a particular keyframe, then the parameter for each of the other animations are automatically changed to that parameter. My suggestion is to have the parameter for each animation (PZR) linked so that if someone wants the original flexibility to input a different parameter for each of the animations, then the parameters for each animations can become unlinked.

I have seen this strange 'shifting' in an image for many years and only recently figured out what was going on. I don't think most users would know that it is important to make the parameters to be the same for each animation (Pan, Zoom and Rotate) to avoid this 'shifting' problem.

Gary

[Bert]

I completely agree, and support Gary's sugestion.

Bert

[davegee]

Gary

Respectfully suggest your title is misleading.

It is the combination of different settings for PZR which causes the effect and not just zoom.

DG

[goddi]

Gary

Respectfully suggest your title is misleading.

It is the combination of different settings for PZR which causes the effect and not just zoom.

DG

========================

Dave,

I can't disagree with you. But I was really not sure how to title the posting. All I can say is that the shifting problem happened when I tried a Zoom with Panning. I am not technical enough to figure out all of the other possibilities. But, I would hope that the solutions I recommend will solve all of the combinations of using different settings for PZR.

If you can make a change to the title of this posting, please do. Just not sure what the right words are.

Thanks...

Gary

[xahu34]

...

My suggestion is the make the default so that when one of the animation (Pan, Zoom or Rotate) parameters (Linear, etc.) is changed for a particular keyframe, then the parameter for each of the other animations are automatically changed to that parameter

...

I think that this suggestion is (to some extent) not complete. A speed option is not a parameter for a single key frame, it is always is a relationship between two key frames whose intermediate key frames are glued. So in my opinion, if we want to define a default situation we need a description that is more precise. Sorry

A possible default situation could be the following: All key frames are separated (none is glued), and if we set a speed option for two adjacent key frames for some animation type, this option should hold for all of them.

Regards,

Xaver

[goddi]

I think that this suggestion is (to some extent) not complete. A speed option is not a parameter for a single key frame, it is always is a relationship between two key frames whose intermediate key frames are glued. So in my opinion, if we want to define a default situation we need a description that is more precise. Sorry A possible default situation could be the following: All key frames are separated (none is glued), and if we set a speed option for two adjacent key frames for some animation type, this option should hold for all of them. Regards,Xaver

========================

Xaver,

I have not used the Speed option so I have to leave my suggestion up to those who understand the complications and ramifications of fixing one problem and its unintended consequences. I would hope Igor and the more experienced users, like you, can come up with a fix.

Thanks... Gary

[davegee]

Gary

Linear and accelerate are speed options.

DG

[goddi]

Gary

Linear and accelerate are speed options.

DG

=============================

Dave,

I am confused. When Xaver mentioned 'speed option', I assumed he was talking about when you select the 'Setting up...' option for the animation parameters. It appears to me that this 'Speed option...' can apply to any of the parameters ( Linear, Accelerate, Slow down and Smooth). However, you seem to be saying that it only applies to Linear and Accelerate. Can you clarify what you were saying??? I am pretty much in the dark about how to use this setting but I'd like to understand what you and Xaver are talking about.

Thanks... Gary

[davegee]

Gary

Apologies - I should have said "Linear, Accelerate, Slow Down etc" are the speed options Xaver spoke of.

These are the speeds at which an object travels between keyframes. if you apply two or three different PZR effects to an object using differential speed options, unexpected movements can occur, as you have seen.

In a way, your suggestion has alredy been implemented. They are all set to Linear to begin with but to avoid these unexpected motions you should change all three when you change one.

DG

[fh1805]

In a way, your suggestion has alredy been implemented. They are all set to Linear to begin with but to avoid these unexpted motions you should change all three when you change one.

An alternative approach which I find useful is to place your object as the child of a nest of frames and apply each type of animation (3D, 2D Pan, 2D Zoom, 2D Rotate, Opacity change) on a separate frame. Now if you want Linear Pan, Smooth Rotate and Accelerate Zoom you keep each one separate from the others. I'm not saying that this approach will resolve the problems that Gary has encountered, but it is the way I have learned to handle complex animations. In this context "complex" is anything more than one animation type between two keyframes on the only object on the slide.

regards,

Peter

[davegee]

Agreed Peter,

However, if you try Gary's example in a Parent/Child nested frames approach with the Pan on one frame and Zoom on a separate frame, the result is exactly the same as Gary's original.

DG

[fh1805]

However, if you try Gary's example in a Parent/Child nested frames approach with the Pan on one frame and Zoom on a separate frame, the result is exactly the same as Gary's original.

Agreed. That's because of the geometry of his image with respect to the motion he would like. His point of interest (the visual focus of his pan and zoom) is too close to the edge of the map for the animation that he is trying to do. I actually like the "random wandering effect" of the animation but it will work only when the centre of interest is nearer the centre of the slide. There has to be sufficient image to cover the slide area at all times. In Gary's case this isn't possible with the image he has chosen when combined with the animation he has programmed.

Peter

[Lin Evans]

Hi David,

Just one minor technical and admittedly "nitpicking" observation - it'a actually the "behavior" of the motion of the object between keyframes. The "speed" it measured from keyframe to keyframe might well be identical assuming one measures speed as end time of arrival of the object at the second keyframe along the timeline minus start time of the motion of that object at the first keyframe. But because the object might start slower and gradually go continually faster (accelerate) or start faster and gradually slow down (Slow Down) or start slowly, accelerate then gradually slow down (smooth) as opposed to begin, maintain and end with a constant speed (linear); the position of the object at any "point" in time will be different depending on the behavior chosen.

Of course measuring speed by subtracting start time from end time is arbitrarily imposing an average upon a behavior which obviously might not be constant. I know "we" all know this, but this reminder is for the new user readers who may not realize exactly what this discussion is about.

It would be nice if there were a series of graphs to which we could refer in order to put this into a visual which would make it much easier to apprehend (I think)....

Best regards,

Lin

Gary

Apologies - I should have said "Linear, Accelerate, Slow Down etc" are the speed options Xaver spoke of.

These are the speeds at which an object travels between keyframes. if you apply two or three different PZR effects to an object using differential speed options, unexpected movements can occur, as you have seen.

In a way, your suggestion has alredy been implemented. They are all set to Linear to begin with but to avoid these unexpected motions you should change all three when you change one.

DG

[davegee]

Hi Lin,

My reference to Speed was retrospective in trying to explain to Gary what Xaver said.

I wonder whether an Excel Spreadsheet might explain it?

A graph of each of the Options with respect to Time might explain something that is difficult to put into words but getting figures for the different accelerations is a little ahead of me at the moment.

DG

[Lin Evans]

Hi Dave,

That's my problem too - I'm not sure I would get it right. It's difficult without the source code to see exactly the formula used for setting acceleration, slow down and smooth. Probably it could be done in a general rather than specific to PTE means - perhaps on graph paper. If I get the time, I might try - or perhaps just do a web search to see if someone has already done it... high probability of that I think...

Best regards,

Lin

Hi Lin,

My reference to Speed was retrospective in trying to explain to Gary what Xaver said.

I wonder whether an Excel Spreadsheet might explain it?

A graph of each of the Options with respect to Time might explain something that is difficult to put into words but getting figures for the different accelerations is a little ahead of me at the moment.

DG

[fh1805]

It would be nice if there were a series of graphs to which we could refer in order to put this into a visual which would make it much easier to apprehend (I think)....

Isn't that what the profile shapes tell us when we click on the "Linear" button; or am I missing something here?

Peter

[davegee]

Peter,

I think that Lin and I might be thinking along the same lines.

You are, of course correct but it only shows the acceleration profile.

I was thinking more of a visual which would show the shift in real time related to each of the movements.

Linear is simple - acceleration is zero pixels/sec/sec but Smooth is totally different.

Putting a DOT in the Centre of a Frame would show the kind of movement (within PTE) I'm thinking of for PAN but ROTATE and ZOOM are a little different.

In PTE, if you place a DOT further away from the centre of rotation and rotated its frame through 360 using SMOOTH the the dot would accelerate between zero and 90 deg, remain at constant speed from 90 to 270 and then decelerate from 270 to 360 (figures approximate).

It is not something that I want to spend time on - someone well versed in Excel could probably show it.

DG

[xahu34]

... It's difficult without the source code to see exactly the formula used for setting acceleration, slow down and smooth ...

My impression is that there is quite an easy speed model in the game. Each animation is divided intro three parts: 1. accelerated animation, 2. intermediate animation, 3. decelerated animation (negative acceleration). The model seems to be as follows: Part 1: constant positive acceleration (linear increase in speed, quadratic increase in distance), Part 2: constant speed (zero acceleration, linear increase in distance), Part 3: constant negative acceleration ( ... ).

Simple test (not a complete proof): Define a slide of length 60 seconds. Insert a rectangle at ( x = -100 , y = 0 ). Give it a second key point at time 60 sec with position ( x = 100 , y = O ) . Set the speed profile to "Accelerate" (speed parameters 100, 100). Start the animation and stop it at 30 second. Then the rectangle should be at position ( x = -50 , y = 0 ), its one quarter of the overall distance. This shows at least the quadratic behavior in the accelerated part of the animation.

Regards,

Xaver

[davegee]

It's a bit like spreading a PANORAMA split into 4 equal parts over 4 slides - if the duration of all four slides is equal then the speed of the overall pan is constant.

If the duration of slides one and four is decreased then the panorama behaves something (but not exactly) like a SMOOTH speed option.

Applying ACCELERATE to the shortened slide one and DECELERATE to the shortened slide four would make it exactly like the SMOOTH option (or a custom built SMOOTH derivative).

DG