Lack of Help

[MarioG]

Without the tutorials contributed by the experienced members here this program would not be worth buying, at least for me.

You people supplying help and tutorials for us newbies are doing a wonderful job for a program that apparently is capable of doing so much.

Is there a book on the market I can buy?

Too my great surprise, hitting the help button on the program 'Ver5 Deluxe' only directs me to this website. Has any version of PTE had help

actually in the help section? What a dissapointment!

Many tutorials (but not all) I eventually find are not comprehensive in that many times they assume knowledge of other areas of PTE to accomplish the task at hand. As I said earlier, thank god for you guys suppliyng tutorials. I think the makers of PTE should concentrate less on updating the program and consider more the need for a structured help section within the program or at least a manual for purchase.

Sorry, I need to let off steam and what better place than with my friends.

P.s I saw somewhere CD's for sale, are they structured and worth buying? Unfortunately, I'm one of those that learn more by seeing not by reading.

Wishing you all well,

Mario

[Lin Evans]

Hi Mario,

We are only a couple weeks from having a comprehensie English version of complete PTE documentation, When finished, it will be indexed, have a glossary as well as addenda covering specific area. Right now there is a French version already completed.

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7090

Eventually there will be complete help available on the web but you must understand that version 5 was just completed. It was not possible to have comprehensive documentation until the product was finished and the betas have been free for all to use and learn with for over a year now.

For the Objects and Animations including Project Options and a treatise on understanding keypoints you can download a temporary PDF which should help you understand the majority of the basics of how to use version 5. If you are patient, in a couple weeks the completed documentation will be widely available for download in PDF format where you may print your own version. Having a printed version available for purchase wouldn't be very effective because like all good software it's always in a state of constant improvement so updates to the PDF document will be a continuing process with the latest version always available.

For past versions to 4.8 Al Robins has had complete documentation available for several years.

Here's the link to what I have which will be added to the main section soon.

http://www.lin-evans.net/tutorial/ObjectsAnimation.pdf

Lin

ote name='Mario' date='Aug 2 2007, 03:07 AM' post='44407']

Without the tutorials contributed by the experienced members here this program would not be worth buying, at least for me.

You people supplying help and tutorials for us newbies are doing a wonderful job for a program that apparently is capable of doing so much.

Is there a book on the market I can buy?

Too my great surprise, hitting the help button on the program 'Ver5 Deluxe' only directs me to this website. Has any version of PTE had help

actually in the help section? What a dissapointment!

Many tutorials (but not all) I eventually find are not comprehensive in that many times they assume knowledge of other areas of PTE to accomplish the task at hand. As I said earlier, thank god for you guys suppliyng tutorials. I think the makers of PTE should concentrate less on updating the program and consider more the need for a structured help section within the program or at least a manual for purchase.

Sorry, I need to let off steam and what better place than with my friends.

P.s I saw somewhere CD's for sale, are they structured and worth buying? Unfortunately, I'm one of those that learn more by seeing not by reading.

Wishing you all well,

Mario

[potwnc]

Mario (and others),

What PTE - and other software like it - does is very complex. There are really two sides to what you're asking...

The first has to do with help, in general, about using any software package. While PTE does an excellent job by following MS Windows standards, making things as easy as possible, there are some things about slideshow/video production for which MS Windows itself is not yet very well designed. Igor and the team have also done an excellent job working around such MS Windows limitations. While I agree that it would be great to have a comprehensive help file, as Lin said, PTE 5 is a new product and the documentation/tutorials available are catching up. There's certainly potential and need for a book and those of us working on tutorial material may want to pursue that eventually.

The second has to do with help about the area of work (slideshow/video production) that PTE is designed for. Buying PTE or any similar product will not make you an expert in that area. Just to give you an example, I had to learn many things about video production in general, and HD video production specifically before I could produce anything useful using PTE or begin writing the HD tutorial I'm working on. That's not a flaw in PTE or the documentation it comes with - it's just that this area is very very complex and requires a lot of knowledge that I simply had to take the time to learn. Any software that can support this (like PTE can) will assume that you already know or are willing to find out certain things that will not be covered in a help file because the in-depth knowledge required is just too great.

To some extent you will always have to learn by trial and error. Those of us you credit for supplying material to this forum did it that way! But I and other experienced members are always willing to help you and others with specific questions you have. Stay with PTE and you'll find it's the best software out there for this kind of work

I don't know of any tutorial CDs for sale - maybe you can post the web site links you came across?

Ray

[potwnc]

Lin,

Following up on my previous reply, please contact me via the forum if you are interested in adding my HD tutorial material to the tutorial/documentation you are working on.

Ray

[MarioG]

Hi Mario,

We are only a couple weeks from having a comprehensie English version of complete PTE documentation, When finished, it will be indexed, have a glossary as well as addenda covering specific area. Right now there is a French version already completed.

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7090

Eventually there will be complete help available on the web but you must understand that version 5 was just completed. It was not possible to have comprehensive documentation until the product was finished and the betas have been free for all to use and learn with for over a year now.

For the Objects and Animations including Project Options and a treatise on understanding keypoints you can download a temporary PDF which should help you understand the majority of the basics of how to use version 5. If you are patient, in a couple weeks the completed documentation will be widely available for download in PDF format where you may print your own version. Having a printed version available for purchase wouldn't be very effective because like all good software it's always in a state of constant improvement so updates to the PDF document will be a continuing process with the latest version always available.

For past versions to 4.8 Al Robins has had complete documentation available for several years.

Here's the link to what I have which will be added to the main section soon.

http://www.lin-evans.net/tutorial/ObjectsAnimation.pdf

Lin

Thankyou Lin, I'll be very much looking forward to it.

Mario

[MarioG]

Mario (and others),

What PTE - and other software like it - does is very complex. There are really two sides to what you're asking...

The first has to do with help, in general, about using any software package. While PTE does an excellent job by following MS Windows standards, making things as easy as possible, there are some things about slideshow/video production for which MS Windows itself is not yet very well designed. Igor and the team have also done an excellent job working around such MS Windows limitations. While I agree that it would be great to have a comprehensive help file, as Lin said, PTE 5 is a new product and the documentation/tutorials available are catching up. There's certainly potential and need for a book and those of us working on tutorial material may want to pursue that eventually.

The second has to do with help about the area of work (slideshow/video production) that PTE is designed for. Buying PTE or any similar product will not make you an expert in that area. Just to give you an example, I had to learn many things about video production in general, and HD video production specifically before I could produce anything useful using PTE or begin writing the HD tutorial I'm working on. That's not a flaw in PTE or the documentation it comes with - it's just that this area is very very complex and requires a lot of knowledge that I simply had to take the time to learn. Any software that can support this (like PTE can) will assume that you already know or are willing to find out certain things that will not be covered in a help file because the in-depth knowledge required is just too great.

To some extent you will always have to learn by trial and error. Those of us you credit for supplying material to this forum did it that way! But I and other experienced members are always willing to help you and others with specific questions you have. Stay with PTE and you'll find it's the best software out there for this kind of work

I don't know of any tutorial CDs for sale - maybe you can post the web site links you came across?

Thanks for the reply Ray. I''ll tyry and find where I saw those cd's and I'll post the link, maybe someone else has seen them?

Regards, Mario

[RayC]

Hi Mario,

Barry Bechams site as tutorials on Disc for PTE, HERE:-/www.beckhamdigital.co.uk/

Thats were I first started In the days ov V4, They dont cover everything but do cover a lot.I happen to be waiting delivery of is latest.

Also the Tutoials on this Forum are terific, So who needs a Book.

All the best. Ray

[macsrus]

Hi Mario,

Barry Bechams site as tutorials on Disc for PTE, HERE:-/www.beckhamdigital.co.uk/

Thats were I first started In the days ov V4, They dont cover everything but do cover a lot.I happen to be waiting delivery of is latest.

Also the Tutoials on this Forum are terific, So who needs a Book.

All the best. Ray

Hi Mario,

I can also recommend Barry Beckhams tutorials for PTE, they are very easy to follow very enjoyable and always include a lot of extra tips and tricks which I personally find very helpful.

I have just received his latest one on PTE 5 animation which really is excellent and very comprehensive on the subject of animation in PTE 5.

Regards

Bob

[jfa]

Mario, Barry Beckhams tutorials for PTE are what got me going in PTE a few years ago.

As Bob said, I found them very easy to follow and always include a lot of extra tips and tricks. Also Barry's AV shows are excellent and full of ideas and free from his site.

www.beckhamdigital.co.uk/

Also try Al Robinsons PTE-101 a great intro to PTE:

http://www.alrobinson.com/av/technology1.htm

Good luck and enjoy. I have to say good things about Barry as he is about to become a Aussie

[Ronniebootwest]

It is good to see that Barry Beckham is getting 'plugs' for his tutorials - thay are very good. However it is a pity that other members of this forum don't get more of a mention, e.g. Tom Court, Lin Evans, Al Robinson, Ron West an so on. These members provide (Free of charge) tutorials of a very high standard and need to be encouraged if such tutorials are to continue.

I have considered putting all of the pdf tutorials, that I have produced, onto a CD and selling it for £10 but I know from experience that such a CD would NOT attract any buyers because people will NOT usually pay the price, so what would be the point?

For those who would like to download some free tutorials, please visit my web site and go to the 'Tutorials' page.

Visit My Website

[Barry Beckham]

Ron.

At a risk of stirring up a hornests nest among protective PTE users, people in general don't want written tutorials. Now I know that will not sit very well with those who have put in hours of work with written tutorials, but it appears to be true.

Sure there are some who do prefer a written tutorial to read on the way to work or when they are away from the PC, but unless they are written superbly well, they often fall short. Look at Magazines that provide written tutorials, but no CD containing movies. Their circulation is way way behind those that do.

The vast majority of people like video tutorials, because they can see exactly what is being done and get an explanation why it is being done. Even if we then slip into jargon that is not understood, they can still see in the video what has been done.

There are some very helpful tutorials provided on this site and I expect many a new user has been grateful for them and I have picked up a few things myself. However, to write such tutorials is a very difficult thing to do and maintain interest. Because we have a great knowledge of PTE we tend to assume others have more knowledge than they actually do. Its not a thing we do deliberately, its because we went past the basics so long ago its hard to turn the clock back and put ourselves back in the role of a beginner again.

I have found it to be true many times that the tutorial writer assumes far too much. My own experiences only recently with a move to a dedicated server is a good example. Not to worry the web space provider said, we have tutorials on line to walk you through each process. They were about as much use as a chocolate teapot because they did not follow every step and jargon appeared almost immediately. The end result for me is that I now have no confidence in them whatsoever. They were quite obviously written by the company technical expert with the very best of intentions, but where a waste of time

I have noticed that with tutorials I have read from this site. Although the writer may be using the correct names for areas and techniques in the software, it means nothing to the new user and they will quickly lose interest. I read something a few days ago and had to read it a few times myself before the penny dropped, I didn't understand what was being referred to. If an experienced user can be confused by a basic tutorial, the new user will quickly lose interest and grind to a halt.

Every written tutorial should be created in stages with plenty of screen grabs. Not screen grabs that have been reduced for web use and are now impossible to see. They should be as easy to view as looking at the original in the software. Each step of the way needs to be as foolproof as possible so that someone with no experience at all can get to a final result. Miss just one small step and the whole tutorial becomes useless.

A well written tutorial takes a lot of time and skill to write, but if you get it right, there are a lot of Magazines out there that will bite your arm off for them.

The biggest problem bar far is writing at a level that starts off way above the beginner or uses terms and jargon that is not understood. Its not easy to do this no matter how well motivated the writer is.

Barry

[Ken Cox]

THERE ARE MORE LINKS POSTED HERE

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?showforum=8

get yourself a 3 ring binder 500 sheets of paper a fresh printer cartridge and print out the instructions that are availabel

but you never hear people that are doing all the complaining about lack of info say that they have tried all the different sections of the forum

or that they have used the forum search

i never knew about the forum for 6 months after i purchased my ver 3.4, by that time i had -- without instruction manual -- produced a number of small shows -- granted my shows are not the quality of the majority of shows posted but at least i tried

it seems how matter how we try it is never enough

myself if and when i read instructions i print it out and with the step by step instructions i make the moves - video on the other hand is fine but unless you have two monitors your system is tied up while it plays and how do you print it?

i have found that trial and error - practice - communication - try again works good enough for this old guy - -and MSN video works great when i want to talk somebody thru a problem or they want to do the same for me

and years ago igor supplied these links

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums//index...hl=inna+malkova

and for years there are tutorials posted at

http://www.picturestoexe.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=87

http://beechbrook.com/pte/index.asp?catego...4&view=View

ken

[MarioG]

"but you never hear people that are doing all the complaining about lack of info say that they have tried all the different sections of the forum

or that they have used the forum search"

It appears you're counting me as one doing all the complaining. I've tried searching the forum and I find your taken from one place to another. In fact all over the place.

Take for example when you select 'Objects and Animations', now select the animations tab. You're presented with 'Pan' Zoom' 'Rotate and 'Center' settings together with three dropdown ' Linear' panels. Select any 'Linear' dropdown and your then presented with 'Settings' I've got no idea what this is let alone how to use it. This is only one example of many which leaves me three choices;

1 Forget about it and hope somewhere along the line I might pick it up.

2 Spend hours on these types of settings fumbling around in the dark.

3 As you suggest, root around the forum in hope to find and answer or a link off-site.

All of these equal frustration.

I've seen a few Slideshows posted here and all I can say is 'WOW' I particularly liked the Envelope,postard Slideshow which by the way came with very good how to instructions. It's daunting to me the pre required knowledge one needs to make a sshow like that.

I'm sure I'm not the only one looking to make it easier to learn but calling me a complainer only makes me think to hesitate in asking questions. I'm guessing that your comment about people complaining was simply a metaphor.

Wouldn't it be nice and convenient if all tutorials or link were gathered and stored in one place (a tutorial bank). That's not a suggestion, just a thought.

Mario

[Lin Evans]

Hi Mario,

Did you download the PDF file from the link I gave you? There are 41 pages on Objects and Animations explaining every question you have just brought up. The PDF documentation takes you through each and every button, link and feature and explains in detail what they do, how they are used and how to use them.

Lin

"but you never hear people that are doing all the complaining about lack of info say that they have tried all the different sections of the forum

or that they have used the forum search"

It appears you're counting me as one doing all the complaining. I've tried searching the forum and I find your taken from one place to another. In fact all over the place.

Take for example when you select 'Objects and Animations', now select the animations tab. You're presented with 'Pan' Zoom' 'Rotate and 'Center' settings together with three dropdown ' Linear' panels. Select any 'Linear' dropdown and your then presented with 'Settings' I've got no idea what this is let alone how to use it. This is only one example of many which leaves me three choices;

1 Forget about it and hope somewhere along the line I might pick it up.

2 Spend hours on these types of settings fumbling around in the dark.

3 As you suggest, root around the forum in hope to find and answer or a link off-site.

All of these equal frustration.

I've seen a few Slideshows posted here and all I can say is 'WOW' I particularly liked the Envelope,postard Slideshow which by the way came with very good how to instructions. It's daunting to me the pre required knowledge one needs to make a sshow like that.

I'm sure I'm not the only one looking to make it easier to learn but calling me a complainer only makes me think to hesitate in asking questions. I'm guessing that your comment about people complaining was simply a metaphor.

Wouldn't it be nice and convenient if all tutorials or link were gathered and stored in one place (a tutorial bank). That's not a suggestion, just a thought.

Mario

[MarioG]

Hi Mario,

Did you download the PDF file from the link I gave you? There are 41 pages on Objects and Animations explaining every question you have just brought up. The PDF documentation takes you through each and every button, link and feature and explains in detail what they do, how they are used and how to use them.

Hi Lin,

Yes I did and thank you, but haven't read it yet as I've been busy locating and downloading any tutorial I can get my hands on.

LOL... I'm massing quite a collection!

Cheers

Mario

[johnleslie]

Hallo Mario

I'ts always easy when we know how!

From my own experience, starting from basics is the best way forward, although i may have had experience before,

there are always new ways and ideas to be learnt.

I have found all the Tutorials on the Forum excellent and i think the authors do a great job, although i think i know

what you mean when it comes to someone starting to learn for the first time.

I agree with other members advice and from my own experience there could be a DVD Tutorial by:

Barry Beckham on his web site: www.beckhamdigital.co.uk.

One that may be of interest to help for you is: PicturesToExe 5 Delux Starter DVD - 5 hours of vidio, including

animation. The price here in the is UK £13.50 British Pounds + tax.

No! I'm not a salesman

I hope this may be of help to yourself and others and enjoy this excellent programm. Also a "BIG THANK YOU" to all

the members who help us all with their tutorials

All the best - Johnleslie

[Ronniebootwest]

What is going on here? There are many good written tutorials available that deal with PTE. I started writing pdf tutorials a while ago and I aimed them specifically at the beginner. From the responses I have had, I know that these tutorials have been much appreciated. I do not agree with you Barry (Beckham) that witten tutorials are of no use, on the contrary, a lot of people prefer the written word over video because watching a video always means that you will have to make your own scribbled notes (and that surely defeats the object).

Before anyone takes seriously your suggestion that written stuff is not very good, I suggest that any interested members (who have not yet done so) download just one of my pdf tutorials and see for yourself - then make up your mind about whether you want a FREE written tutorial or would prefer to pay from £15 to £20 for a video version.

There is room for any type of tutorial, whether it is written or spoken!

Ron

[jevans]

Barry,

I am very interested in your comments and there is much in what you say that I agree with. However I have always been a person who, when getting any new device or software, wants to read the manual. My friends who know me well say that my epitaph should be "Can't go now, haven't read the manual". Although I find video tutorials very helpful ( and I have bought several of your excellent examples) I like to have a reference document that I can look up a question if I get stuck.

Now Lin and myself are writing a detailed tutorial for PTE in pdf format. It is intended to be more of a reference document than a 2How TO" guide, although we have tried to explain all the functions as simply and in as much detail as we are able. When it becomes generally available, I would be most interested in your views about its usefulness as a general guide. I don't know about Lin, but I have spent about 60 hours so far on writing my sections. I have enjoyed doing it and it certainly was a challenge. But I would hate to think it was a waste of time and no use the forum members.

Regards

Jeff

[Lin Evans]

Jeff is being modest, actually let me shed a bit more light on the issue of manuals and documentation.

First let me say that there are two types of learners in respect to understanding software - visual learners who need to see something done and verbal learners who learn best by reading and having written references to use while they work with software.

Jeff was for many years an engineering consultant supervising written technical documentation. I'm a former published college professor who also owned and operated a successful software development company for many years, so I think its fair to say that between us we have many, many years experience writing technical documentation for all levels of learners.

What we and others are putting together will permit the unsophisticated and beginning user of PicturesToExe to learn the program from the ground up. Nothing will be assumed about the level of understanding of the audience, and the documentation is liberally endowed with full sized screen captures of relevant and important areas. There will be a detailed glossary, an index and specialized "how-to" addenda which I'm certain will please and perhaps teach even experienced and sophisticated users a few new tricks. We assume nothing as far as the level of reader experience. Even someone who knows nothing of presentation slideshow software will be able to make animated slideshows with nothing more that what we publish.

For those needing audio visual help, Barry has excellent CD's and DVD's available for a very modest price and I encourage anyone who needs or wants this type of learning aid to take advantage of his many valuable lessons.

But just so there is no misunderstanding, what Jeff and I and others who have volunteered to contribute will produce and make freely available will be done professionally and at a level which will suit everyone. This will be a continuing effort with numerous specialized publications for each interest area of PicturesToExe. There will be links to a library of AV tutorials as well which will supplement the PDF format documentation, so don't feel that you are being shortchanged because you are getting this free. We consider this effort as a part of PicturesToExe to be freely given to the community of users.

Best regards,

Lin

[stonemason]

Jeff, Lin and Ron be assured that all your efforts in creating pdf tutorials are very much appreciated by the vast majority of PTE users. Anyone who is prepared to share their expertise and knowledge with NO financial motive, and to give so freely of their time to help others get the maximum enjoyment from PTE is in my opinion what this forum is all about. Generosity and a consideration for others are qualities which are sadly lacking in the modern world, but they are here in abundance.

regards

Geoff

[Ken Cox]

Mario

year or so ago there was a recurring question asked -- this was early dvd era

"What resolution should still photos be?"

a member directed us to the adobe forum

http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx/?1...bBBzR@.3bb8822c

i think i had to register

but now that i was in i browsed

http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx/.3bb684c4/

and they have the same problems we have and if they buy boxed adobe products they get a book yet they still cant do what they want or do not know how thus the forum,

in our case the guys that are experimenting are sharing and if asked will tell all, write manual's etc for a little piece of graphics software

ken

[Peter S]

Hi Mario and everyone else,

This topic seems to have created a great deal of excitement! I think it is important to respect everyones' point of view when it comes to methods of teaching/learning and it is certain that one way does not suit everyone. It is also important that other peoples statements are not misrepresented in the heat of the discussion.

Ron, you said in your post:

"I do not agree with you Barry (Beckham) that witten tutorials are of no use,..."

Barry actually said:

"There are some very helpful tutorials provided on this site and I expect many a new user has been grateful for them and I have picked up a few things myself..." Not quite the same?

Personally I have found Ron's tutorials very helpful as well as those from Al, Lin, Jeff and others. I have also had great help, from members of this forum, in solving problems from others such as TheDom and JPD and never forget Igor and his team. Want to know about sound? Brian Conflow nearly always has an answer.

I have also bought Barry Beckam's CDs and DVs and found them a very good learning resource.

I have gained the greatest benefit by combining all these excellent resources. One method often reinforces another.

My suggestion would be try all the options and use whatever you find the most appropriate for your needs.

Don't bother to get into arguments about what is best because what is the most appropriate for one person may be the least appropriate for another.

One tip I found helpful is: if you use CDs/DVDs open PTE as well and skip between the tutorial and PTE trying things out for yourself as you move through the tutorial. You can often use images provided with the tutorials or you can use your own images.

Kind Regards

Peter

[Barry Beckham]

Jeavons

I think you are pretty unique there, men are notoriously bad at reading manuals including me

Written tutorials have to encourage use and to do that they have to be very well laid out and easy to use. No, Jargon, just the steps that need to be followed. I recall my days of looking at work related statistics. Most are created by technically advanced individuals, but to others the information was not presented in a way it could be understood, and it makes the information almost useless. The trouble is most people will not admit they don't understand something and it takes a stronger more confident individual to put their hand up and say. I don't understand, most will just keep quite and hope no-one notices

Written tutorials can be fine, but be aware of your target audience and pitch it for them. We almost always underestimate our knowledge of software like Photoshop, PTE and general computer related topics and that spills over into our tutorials. I have written hundreds and its not easy to do unless you write reams of information, which then has that negative effect. Magazines try this balance to get something worthwhile into 6 or 11 simple steps.

Barry

[JEB]

Hi,

For what it's worth I think Peter S has summed up the situation very well (only because I agree with everything he says!).

I think I have purchased (willingly) all of Barry's DVDs, I have certainly read all and have printed off most of the tutorials that have been made available freely by other members of this forum.

My one problem is coordinating all of that information in such a way that I can easily access and cross reference all these resources. I am hoping that Lin and Jeff's work will be a starting point towards my reaching that objective.

Thank you all for your hard work whether it is commercially motivated or otherwise.

John