davegee

Jill, There is merit in what you suggest. Obviously none of us have used the Scale Key Frames too much in the past or we would all have spotted the anomalies before now and reported them. My excuse is that I never use Non-KFSD so it would have behaved as expected/> It seems like a good time for Igor to rethink this feature. The other side of the coin is that some will want to Scale ALL Key Frames while others (like you) will want the KFs at the beginnings and ends of transitions to be locked. Interesting! DG

Hi Igor, I think that you have solved the problem for KFSD Mode. But when using Scale Key Frames in Non-KFSD Mode the scaling still uses the Full Slide Duration (both transition times). Are you saying that when Scale Key Frames is used it will always be Full Slide Duration (both transitions)?? DG

Thanks Igor. DG

Correct Stu, The Scale Key Frames function works as expected whilst in KFSD and with no KFs in the Ending Transition (the exception to this is obviously a KF placed at the END of the Ending Transition). Broadening the scope of this just a little, I am still unsure about the difference between KFSD and Non-KFSD when using Scale KFs. When you use KFSD the calculation for Scale KFs is being done on the Full Slide Duration. When you use Non-KFSD and Scale KFs the calculation is STILL made on the Full Slide Duration. If a KF is placed at 25% of the Non-KFSD time in the Timeline then after an Adjustment you would expect it to still be at 25% of the NEW Non-KFSD Time. This is not the case - after an adjustment the same KF is placed at 22.5% of the Non-KFSD time. In actual fact it is 20% of the pre-adjustment KFSD time. This is totally illogical. DG

Thanks Stu, I only checked back to 707 and it is there as well. DG

That sounds like you have inserted a TEMPLATE - PROJECT OPTIONS> DEFAULTS>INSERT TEMPLATE BTW my references are to Version 7.5.3 DG

Are you copying and pasting the first slide to create slides 2, 3,4 etc? Even so you are able to delete the comment. Have you got the COMMENT TOOLBAR visible i.e. TICKED in Settings>Preferences> Toolbars? Where did you enter the comment? DG

Thanks Gary. DG

Gary, Can you also confirm in my Bug Report? DG

Igor, The following test is repeatable on both my Vista and W7 PCs in V7.0.7 and V7.5.3 and results in the anomaly seen below. Open a NEW PROJECT. Set KFSD on and Slide Duration and Transition Time to 8 seconds and 2 seconds respectively. Add 3 Blank Slides. Open Slide 2 (or 1) in O&A and add an object. Set KFs at 2 second intervals i.e 6, 8 10, 12 and 14 seconds. Go to Customize Slide. Tick Scale KFs and adjust Slide Duration to 16 seconds. The result is shown below. The penultimate slide is not Scaled? Either my understanding of Scale Key Frames is flawed or there is a Bug / Logic Problem there somewhere?? DG

Gary/ Stu, The following test is repeatable on both my Vista and W7 PCs and results in the anomaly seen in Post#40. Open a NEW PROJECT. Set KFSD on and Slide Duration and Transition Time to 8 seconds and 2 seconds respectively. Add 3 Blank Slides. Open Slide 2 in O&A. Set KFs at 2 second intervals i.e 6, 8 10, 12 and 14 seconds. Go to Customize Slide. Tick Scale KFs and adjust Slide Duration to 16 seconds. The result is shown below. Either my understanding of Scale Key Frames is flawed or there is a Bug / Logic Problem there somewhere?? DG

I will check again in morning but got that result at least twice. DG

OK. Now what about post # 40? DG

Short example? MediaFire - Dropbox etc? DG

Stu / Gary, The plot thickens!! While trying to make an example for Gary I found that this happened - bottom half is before Adjustment - Top half is after Adjustment. Three out of four correct is not Bad?? DG

Gary, Try some tests where you have the last Key Frame at the END of the Slide Duration in both KFSD and Non-KFSD. The penultimate and Last Key Frames can have EXACTLY the same settings and will not affect the overall appearance but might throw some light on what is happening. See my reply to Stu. I think that there is a valid reason to ask Igor to confirm or otherwise that FSD is always used when calculating Key Frame adjustments with Scale Key Frames ticked. If he confirms that KFSD is always used, I'm happy with that and understand the maths but I really think that the calculations should be different for Non-KFSD and KFSD Modes. DG

Hi Stu, I thought that I was the only one using KFSD exclusively and have been doing so since it was firtst introduced. I totally agree with you on what we are seeing with the Scale Key Frames and KFSD. That is not the confusion and I understand exactly the math involved. What I am not sure about is the apparent confusion which might be caused when Scale Key Frames is used in a Non-KFSD Mode? Is the relationship between Scale Key Frames and FSD the only option? Should there be a different option when Scale Key Frames is used in a Non-KFSD Mode? My thinking is that 100% (time) should be different for the two modes. It is bound to be confusing to have a Key Frame set at the beginning of the incoming transition (Slide Duration) in Non-KFSD suddenly jump to the END of the incoming transition when an adjustment is made to the time and Scale Key Frames is ticked? The difficulty for Igor is sure to be how to handle Key Frames which are set to e.g. 120% of Slide Duration in Non KFSD Mode. I can see both sides of the argument but my gut feeling is that a Key Frame placed at 100% of Slide Duration in Non-KFSD should be at 100% of Slide Duration after a time adjustment with Scale Key Frames Ticked. A difficult one? If you want graphical representation of what I am talking about I can do that. DG

Agreed, but I am only looking at the LAST Key Frame and it matters not if KFSD is set or not for that KF. It will always be at the end. If you introduce a transition then the results differ according to the KFSD setting and where the Last KF is placed. DG

Hi Stu, Not arguing with your findings. Just wondering if the results SHOULD be different depending on the KFSD setting? DG

The complication in understanding what is happening is compounded by the fact that Gary has (apparently) set a keyframe outside of the Slide Duration in a Non-KFSD mode project. Gary please correct me if I'm wrong? The test I refered to above: Non-KFSD Mode; Slide Duration 8 secs; Keyframes at Zero and 8 Seconds. When changing the Slide Duration to 16 seconds with Scale Keyframes Ticked I would expect that the second Keyframe be placed at 16 seconds in the same physical position at the beginning of the incoming transition (because I am in Non KFSD Mode). This, to me would be logical. However, it appears to me that when Scale Keyframes is selected the calculation is made on the basis of KFSD being set. Surely this is Logically wrong and the basis of the calculation should take into account KFSD or Non-KFSD? For example the 8 second keyframe in the above example would be 100% of the slide duration based on Non-KFSD before and after the Slide Duration change. Take a similar example with KFSD set to ON. KFSD Mode; Slide Duration 10 seconds; Keyframes at zero and 8 seconds. After a change of Slide Duration to 16 seconds the last Keyframe is now set to 16 seconds - the END of the incoming transition. Stu is correct that when Scale Key Frames is used the last Key Frame is always set to 100% of FSD and the others scaled to suit. However I don't see this as being Logical - KFSD or Non-KFSD should be taken into account. DG

Gary, Stu, There is something not quite right here. Try some tests with KFSD off and Keyframes contained within the Slide Duration i.e. not overlapping into the incoming transition time. The results cannot be right?? DG

Fun? Sure is!! I have concentrated recently on dispensing with the need (or desire) to use Masks. There are, of course, times when the mask will always be needed but there also times when I have used the mask as a first preference and whilst my "new" desktop will handle everything thrown at it the same project almost refuses to run on a lesser machine. So, no more masks unless there is absolutely no other way!! Anyway, back to the discussion arising out of Gary's suggestion..... DG

Hi Lin, I'm fully aware of what's available and I suggested something a little different back in September of last year having encountered a set of circumstances for which the present arrangements are cumbersome. The Master / Slave arrangement would allow for movement of a "block" of Keyframes by clicking on the Master Keyframe and dragging one way or the other moving both the Master and all slaves at the same time by the same amount. This facility is not presently offered? So with regard to my suggestion the method that you offered most definitely IS a workaround? (IMHO & from my perspective).B)/> DG

Hi Lin, Does your workaround allow for Clicking on a single "Absolute" keyframe and dragging it and "x" number of "Relative" keyframes all at the same time and by the same amount? DG P.S. Absolute and Relative are my terminology - they could be called Master and Slave.

DG