xahu34 Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 bbdigital,I do not see any substantial contradiction in our positions, but why to ask for comments explicitly!?Best regardsXaverMunich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Beckham Posted March 26, 2008 Report Share Posted March 26, 2008 XaverBecause comments help you to learn and improve. You don't have take any notice of what people say if you don't want to, but after a while when many people say the same thing, it can help to point you in the right direction.That is the basis of Camera clubs in the UK and whatever you feel about photographic competitions or AV competitions, they work. Human beings are competitive, even those who say they only enter a competition to take part. The competitive spirit drives us to suceed, learn and get better at what we do.You don't have to ask for comments at all, but if it helps those who are unsure whether they should or shouldn't comment, then why not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfa Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 it is very likely that the show which I posted the other day was put to your recycle bin, as it surely is not near to exceptional. Nevertheless, some comments would have been helpful.I assume that the show which you refer to was Memories of Mallorca posted on 27/2. The reason I didn't comment Xaver was comments were not asked for. Often comments, (particularly criticism), are considered rude when not asked for, so I prefer not to run the risk of offending anyone and only giving critic when it is asked for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xahu34 Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 ... The reason I didn't comment Xaver was comments were not asked for. Often comments, (particularly criticism), are considered rude when not asked for, so I prefer not to run the risk of offending anyone and only giving critic when it is asked for.What a pity, I thought that giving feedback were a natural process within a forum!Best regardsXaverMunich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Cox Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 DAMNED IF YOU DODAMNED IF YOU DONTOH WELL KEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davegee Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 Two things come to mind:Firstly, if everything that needs to be said about a presentation has already been said then it is sometimes better to not add needless comments about the same things.Secondly, "if you can't say anything that's nice, then please don't talk at all that's my advice" as the words of the song go.I can't remember the song title or singer(s) but I have always thought it to be a nice sentiment.....and with all of the needless quoting that still goes on it (very often) makes "much ado about nothing".DaveG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xahu34 Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 Hello DaveG,maybe you think of "Willie Nelson - Please Don't Talk About Me When I'm Gone". But does your second point mean something which is different from morturn's remark in post#21? I also agree that critique should not be repeated again and again (1 or 2 repetitions can be helpful), but presently this is not the major problem in this particular forum.Kind regardsXaver H.Munich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Beckham Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 Ken Cox has hit the nail on the head. Dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.If you place a slide show onto the forum it implies to me that comments are welcome and invited, if not, don't post it !There is no point in one person making a comment and because they made a valid point no-one else does. How it that going to help anyone at all. If one person says your panned images go on too long, you can shrug and say, well that's just one persons opinion. If 6 people say the same then perhaps it's time to take a little more notice.You can't have your work appraised (which is good) without some disappointment at times. If you can't live with that, don't post.I am not a lover of this clinical way of delivering comment, but as long as your are constructive and not rude in your views, then the comments will be welcome. None of us like our masterpiece to miss the mark, but it happenes to us all from time to time, no matter what level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter S Posted March 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 We have had a good variety of shows posted recently and from these it seems fairly obvious that people produce shows for quite different primary audiences such as:family and friends, people who shared a journey or experience, a local camera club, themselves etc… you may be able to add many more.They also produce shows and post them here for different reasons. As Morturn pointed out this forum and its members represent a great audio visual resource. It is a place for learning from others and improving. This learning might itself be improved if the author states specifically what he or she would like the viewers to concentrate on. In Skelton Peter Appleton asked the audience.- Is the background an appropriate one?- Is the use of pan and zoom appropriate?- Has it been over-used?If all of us made it clear whether we would like general comments or comments on specific points this would help anyone providing feedback to concentrate on that aspect when watching the show.I don't like the formulaic approach but....WOULD DESCRIBING THE PRIMARY AUDIENCE AND AREAS FOR COMMENT HELP TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF RESPONSES ????Xavier said he thought the provision of feedback was a natural one. The low number of people commenting on the shows posted indicate that it really does not come naturally to many participants (using the word loosely ) on the forum.John aka JFA you say that you show a 2.9% response. Is this the number of posts as a percentage of the number of views? If it is and you look at the number of individuals responding I think it will bring the percentage down a fair bit. 877 views of this post 32 responses (3.6%) 17 people involved (1.9%)The largest number of views for one show on the current 2 pages of shows posted is 3625, number of responses 78 (2.15%), number of people involved 18 (0.5%). I am not sure how the views count works. But I don’t imagine that many people keep viewing the same post and just going away. That suggests that over 3000 people had a read and either downloaded the show and said nothing or just moved onto the next post. I guess they’ll never tell me but I would like to know… .What are all the other people doing? Why do they look at the posts in this section? Do they download any shows, all the shows? Don’t they have anything to say? Kind regardsPeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorVdK Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 Hello to All,The number of views in my opinion says not much. You can have a lot of views for a show (topic) and only some real comments about the show. In that same topic then a question is asked about technics, or format, or resolution, or whatever, and a discussion is started and that is why people, most of the time, are coming back to that topic (not for the original show).In my experience you can have 800 views of your topic where you started the show, 8 reactions from members about the show (1 %) and about 100 effective downloads of the show (12,5 %).So there are people who open the topic, read the text, but never download the show, they will not post a reaction.Now from the 100 effective downloads you have 8 reactions, so 8 %, not so bad.What are all the other people doing? Why do they look at the posts in this section? Do they download any shows, all the shows? Don’t they have anything to say?There is so many to see, to read, to try it out, to learn, to... on this forum that it may be sometimes a little too much for some people I think.Please do not misunderstand me, I love it, but maybe it is the overload of information that may count.Greetings,Cor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LumenLux Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 There is no point in one person making a comment and because they made a valid point no-one else does.This has been one concern of mine. Especially when a comment is made, the producer responds, and that seems to end the matter - when often the input of others, even on the same point could be very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xahu34 Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 Hello Peter S,reading your contribution makes me feel happy, as it proves that there exists at least one forum member who interprets my posts just as they are. Beside Cor's argument, there may be a another mistake in your calculation of the 1.9% of 877. I am pretty sure that the 17 contributors produced multiple clicks, and a walk through to the 2 pages always produces 2 views. Hence, the world may not be that bad!?Even if some of us (including you and me) do not like to ask for comments in a formal way, I come to the conclusion that it seems to be necessary. I still wonder about the logic behind the fact that people are said to publish something within a forum while rejecting feedback. Best regardsXaverMunich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LumenLux Posted March 27, 2008 Report Share Posted March 27, 2008 XAVER - You bring up yet another thought. Regarding asking for comments, assuming comments would be natural for any show posted, etc. There may be cultural differences that come into play. In recent years our family has had the opportunity to have a couple of nice young ladies live with us as formal or informal exchange students. One lives in Northern Germany, the other in Bayern, not far from you. Our first contact with these young ladies came through an exchange organization. As the organization offered some "training" or "orientation" for us, they told us that for many visitors to the U.S., it is considered impolite to accept the first invitation. In other words, if we wanted to invite the girls to receive something from us or go with us, have more food, etc., we might need to make the offer three times before the guest would feel polite in accepting. My own conclusion to almost all discussions in this forum is that they are productive and they reveal the very high class of person that hangs out here - whether they comment or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xahu34 Posted March 28, 2008 Report Share Posted March 28, 2008 LumenLux,it is very funny to consider John (JFA) as a young German girl, and to invite him (her) three times to give some feedback. Maybe it's worth a try;-)Best regardsXaverMunich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xahu34 Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Question to greenlight:How does your collection of links fit into the context of this thread?Kind regardsXaver H.Munich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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