MOODS OF LAKELAND

[Ken Cox]

I commented on Maureens piece off list -- my comment was "very peaceful", she replied "that is how i intended it" or words to that effect.

now this from a Scottish writer

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/jul/26/s...lans-membership

maybe the pipes like the clans are not in fashion anymore

the pictures could have been from anywhere but because a few recognize the area they feel that the music is wrong

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billabong

so Maureen could have been in Australia and took the pictures then the appropriate music should have been along the lines of

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waltzing_Matilda

ken

[Barry Beckham]

Ken

The music has to feel right, but perhaps we could use some Chinese or Japanese music, maybe something from India or Tibet to a Lakeland Slide show.

Wouldn't work would it?

[Ken Cox]

it is all in the ears of the listener )

ken

[Barry Beckham]

[fh1805]

...I totally accept that we ... make our shows for different reasons at different times. Sometimes to please ourselves, sometimes to please a wider audience and that is when it gets tricky...

My views, for what they may be worth:

I make all my sequences to please one audience and one audience only - me! If I'm happy with the final product then that project has come to a successful conclusion. I firmly believe it is a mistake to try and "second guess" how an audience will react to it. If an audience enjoys my work, that is a bonus. I have only ever built a sequence with a specific audience in mind on two occasions; and both times I wasn't entirely happy with the result.

I would urge everybody who is doing AV as a hobby to concentrate on producing results that please them rather than worry about how a potential audience might react. (If you are doing it professionally for a client then that is a whole new ball-game)

This is not to say that you should ignore all the feedback comments that might come your way. Of course you should consider the thoughts being expressed by others. But it is your sequence, not theirs! And so you should take on board comments that you agree with and reject those that you don't. You might even reject comments that you do actually agree with because the change that they imply would not be in keeping with the way you want to present that subject.

regards,

Peter

[JEB]

Ken,

What are you on about?

Perhaps I'm too thick and missing the point. Come to think about it that is quite likely.

The Lake District has got nothing to do with Scotland other than it is sometimes described as “Scotland in miniature” and I'm quite certain most Lakelanders would not like that description one little bit!

If Scottish or Irish music were used on an AV of Ontario's Thousand Lakes (or is it Islands?) it may, perhaps, be more appropriate, given the impact of the Scottish and Irish settlers of the 1700's, than in an AV of The Lake District of England (that's the southern bit just next to Wales). {joke}

As for these nutters that have been prancing around Edinburgh this week in their kilts celebrating the anniversary of a man who had little cultural connection with the Highland people of Scotland all I can say is that in this economic climate we'll take anybodies money. As a Nation (I'm getting my hackles up!) were not known for being that proud!

Regards

John

[Ken Cox]

JEB

http://www.1000islandsinfo.com/

http://www.lake-district.gov.uk/

the first shot at the lake-district web site was of the mountains -- i thought i was in British Columbia Canada

ken

[JEB]

Ken

http://uk.britishcolumbia.travel/en-CA/default.htm

Having visited both I think I can tell the difference.

No bears in the Lake District now - but watch this space. There are some folks in Scotland (that's the bit above England) who would like to re-introduce bears.

John

[Lakelandlass]

Maureen,

In a word - beautiful. All of your presentations are "spot on" in my opionion. Is your opening image of Castlerigg ??

Kind regards - Bill

Yes, Bill, you are correct. Taken on a beautiful frosty morning.

Maureen

[Lakelandlass]

Hi Maureen,

Thought I would add my comments to the others.

Just great, it gives a sense mood & atmoshpere and some of the images are stunning.

Sums up the area for me.

Music is fine for my taste.

One comment I would make is, IMHO you should ditch the Mono slide as I feel it does nothing to enhance the sequence.

I think you have a similar style to myself and iF you get a moment free visit my web site rawlandscapes.co.uk and look at THE PROMISED LAND

Thanks for sharing John.

Hi John

Have just watched for the second time your a/v of THE PROMISED LAND and it brought back happy memories of great walks in Snowdonia, particularly Tryfan and the Snowdon Horseshoe.

What stunning lighting - the sort of stuff to die for and such a lot of work must have gone into this one. Not only the putting together of the a/v but the rugged mountain walking. Are you familiar with Ken Scott's work? He has a similar style.

I recall from when I first came across this Forum your a/v of The Highlands and Skye. Though there was some criticism at the time that it was a bit dark, I absolutely loved it and thought it very typical of the brooding atmospheric conditions with the magical shaft of sunlight bursting through which occurs, if you're lucky, in mountains. I kept it and have played it many times and also showed it to friends who are keen a/v fans.

I shall keep THE PROMISED LAND and also keep a lookout for more of your work.

Best wishes

Maureen

[Lin Evans]

Hi John,

That's just the point - it's the opposite of disrespect. As a musician myself, and having performed myriad types of music both professionally and privately over the last 50 plus years, I realize that while regional musical styles and instrumentation once may have been strongly identified with particular cultures and even with ethnic identities, that's no longer true in the music world. For example, for many years I played in bluegrass bands and helped pay my way through college by doing so. Bluegrass music is typically thought to be of United States folk origin and was named by the "father of Bluegrass," Bill Monroe, a man whom I was proud to call a personal friend. However, bluegrass style music had roots and influence from a broad background including black slaves in the U.S., Appalachian mountain people, etc. So by influence, the roots were Irish, Welsh, African, Scottish, English and in general, from settlers of that part of America from wherever they or their ancestors might have originated.

Today, there are fine bluegrass musicians and bands in numerous countries including Germany, Japan, Ireland, and so on. Music is not static but rather dynamic and fluid; ever changing due to influences from a broad world specturm of contributions. One would be hard pressed to identify any significant musical differences between the London Symphony Orchestra, the Beijing Symphony Orchestra and the Denver Symphony Orchestra even though they are composed of people of vastly different cultural and ethnic identities. Music has a common language and though we can easily identify specific "composers" such as Motzart, Debussy. List, etc., their compositions don't necessarily reflect a particular country or region or cultural or ethnic identity, but only the different expressions of the language of music.

Of course many years ago, regional and specific musical influences were less widely appreciated because of geographical isolation. Today we live in an electronic world where what happens in a remote Romanian village this morning can be instantly known in a remote Kentucky village this afternoon.

If we carefully examine the history of musical instrumentation we may find many surprises. Though one might typically connect bagpipes with Scottish music, you may be surprised to find that bagpipes were historically used in at least seven countries in Western Europe, five countries in Northern Europe, two countries in Eastern Europe, four countries in Southern Europe, in England, in three North African countries and in at least four Southwest Asian countries. So when you hear pipes it may engender feelings of the Scottish Highlands but when people of other cultural heritages hear them they may be reminded of Tunisia, etc.

My point is that the feelings engendered by musical sounds and compositions are not necessarily identified with specific geographical locations in the same ways by everyone, and not necessarily representative of any particular culture. It's rather specific to the mind of the listener and his or her own cultural identity and perhaps ethnocentrism or even eccentricities which may make it seem so.

Had you no experience or knowledge of the geographical locations in Maureen's slideshow and no knowledge of the composer of the music, ask yourself if you would have the same feelings about the appropriateness of the musical selections.

Best regards,

Lin

Lin, I find it difficult to accept your theoretical view regarding cultural or ethnic aspects of music. It is far too clinical a view for me. Nice in theory but impractical in reality and perhaps even disrespectful to the composer and the culture it represents.

Regards

John

[LumenLux]

Admittedly, and intentionally, my first comment was made before watching your presentation. So I was really commenting on the discussion, rather than your show. Now, having watched your AV I would like to further comment. With anything we experience in life, our individual perception is based on everything the individual has experienced heretofore. To me this is part explanation of why a single event, or a single AV, can stimulate so much varied thought. Now, having just viewed Moods of Lakeland, two observations rest on top of my thorough enjoyment of the presentation. 1. The photography is very fine, beautiful, and interesting. 2. The music you use adds value and appeal to your photos. I think though all your photos are wonderful, not all would hold place in your personal finest work gallery. But by presenting in an AV, you effectively use this music to grow the resultant satisfaction for the creator and the viewer. Well done. My being acquainted with the music was no obstacle to my enjoyment. Would other music work as well? Sure. For someone. Would other music diminish the satisfaction. Of course. For someone. In my opinion, the benefit of your AV is the satisfaction, the enrichment that an individual can receive/achieve. The benefit of this discussion is that each of us may be more aware and therefor more effective in our choice of sound for our AV's. Thanks for a great view and an obviously effective stimulus.

[JEB]

Maureen,

This is getting confusing.

THE PROMISED LAND is not my AV - must be someone else I'm afraid.

HIGHLANDS & SKYE was one of mine, I remember the criticisms! Particularly getting worked up over the colour of the frames.

Thanks for the kind words in any event.

Lin,

I've not had time to read what I guess will be a well considered reply. I'm being called for a meal so will look forward to reading it this evening.

Regards

John (JEB)

[JEB]

Hi Lin,

I think we may have to agree to disagree on this one!

QUOTE - “Had you no experience or knowledge of the geographical locations in Maureen's slideshow and no knowledge of the composer of the music, ask yourself if you would have the same feelings about the appropriateness of the musical selections.”

Having asked myself the question framed in your final paragraph above, my answer would have to be “yes” in regard to the location but certainly “no” regarding the composer. I had never heard of the man but his music reminded me of Peru and the North American prairies (my interpretation). Out of curiosity I looked him up and had my suspicions confirmed. I'm sure you know that the composer, who's name now slips me, is an American and wrote the music for a film set in North America somewhere. For my money he did a very fine job given that it had the effect it had on me and I understand some others. I don't know what his ethnic background is, it doesn't matter a toss, what does matter is that he set out to create a mood that would engender specific feelings on his audience and with me at least, he succeeded.

I'm no music buff but I'm well aware of the history of bagpipes and that we Scots have capitalized on them down the ages. I was also aware of the ethnic influences on bluegrass though, I suspect as a musical style it is less well understood this side of The Atlantic than it is on your side. I accept your point that music is international and ever changing but “Danny Boy” is still and always will be an Irish tune.

I'm not sure I follow your references to various International orchestras as once again their ethnic make up will have, I suspect, minimal influence on an identical piece of music. The conductor will I would imagine have much more influence but even he is presumably working from the score as written by the composer.

As has been said by others this has been an interesting discussion and for me underlines the fact that the choice of music is just as important as the images. Even if the choice is for ones own satisfaction rather than a wider audience.

Good Night,

Bonne Nuit,

Buenas Noches,

Bon noite,

Buona Notte,

John

[Lakelandlass]

Maureen,

This is getting confusing.

THE PROMISED LAND is not my AV - must be someone else I'm afraid.

HIGHLANDS & SKYE was one of mine, I remember the criticisms! Particularly getting worked up over the colour of the frames.

Thanks for the kind words in any event.

Lin,

I've not had time to read what I guess will be a well considered reply. I'm being called for a meal so will look forward to reading it this evening.

Regards

John (JEB)

John

As you say, this is getting very confusing. My reply re THE PROMISED LAND was in answer to John DELLER. I have just checked and this appears to be in order.

John Deller, too, created an a/v of The Highlands and Skye. I kept both his and yours.

Maureen

[Ronniebootwest]

Barry - I've emailed you at bigpond.

Maureen

Hello Mary,

It is great that you have emailed Barry, I guess in response to his question about Resolution/Size.

But you haven't posted your reply on this forum and I would also like to know the answer.

Ron

[Barry Beckham]

Maureen, nothing has come in just yet, you can always use tech@beckhamdigital.co.uk

[Lakelandlass]

Maureen, nothing has come in just yet, you can always use tech@beckhamdigital.co.uk

Barry

I emailed you a couple of days ago as I was not quite sure what you meant. You replied by email giving me a 'tip' you thought some Forum members were unaware of when creating their a/vs. I will relay this info to Ronnie and anyone else who may be interested.

Maureen

[Lakelandlass]

Hello Mary,

It is great that you have emailed Barry, I guess in response to his question about Resolution/Size.

But you haven't posted your reply on this forum and I would also like to know the answer.

Ron

Ron

I emailed Barry privately as I wasn't quite sure what he meant as I thought I had already answered his question.

His reply is copied below as it is something other members of the Forum may find useful to know. It is certainly something I had not considered.

[ "Your doing it OK from what I can see. You don't need more than 72ppi and to size images at 1024 and allow the height to take care of itself at 680px retains the format from your camera.

The reason I asked is that there seems to be a little known fact that those on the PTE forum are missing. Unless you tell PTE not to do it, it will try and make your slide show fit any other resolution monitor it is played on. Now that is OK if that resolution is the same as yours, but what if it isn't.

I have a large monitor running 1920*1200 and when I watched your show I had a suspicion that it was being stretched to fit my screen and that puts a large dent in the quality of your images. They were made for a 1024 pixel screen and were made to fit a 1900. You can easily stop that happening, by going into PTE project options and clicking the Screen tab. There is a small box there labeled Fixed Size of slide (in pixels) If you tick that box, your slide show will be seen by others at the size you created it and then the image quality is retained.

You would never know this unless you saw your show played on a large monitor."]

Hope this answers your query, Ron.

Maureen

[Lin Evans]

Hi John,

I accept your point that music is international and ever changing but “Danny Boy” is still and always will be an Irish tune.

Actually, the above is an excellent example of my point.

Danny Boy was written in 1910 by an Englishman (a lawyer, Frederick Weatherly) who never visited Ireland. The lyrics were written for a different tune, then in 1913 were modified by Weatherly's sister to fit the tune of "Londonderry Air" It was first recorded by a German, Ernestine Schumann-Heink (born Tini Rossler).

So you see many musical things are not always so clearly culturally defined and evolve and are "adapted" over time.

Best regards,

Lin

[davegee]

For a complete history of The Londonderry Air read:

Love Me Tender: The Stories Behind the World's Favourite Songs

by Max Cryer

DaveG

[JEB]

Hi Lin,

I was about to concede defeat till I saw DAVEG's post. Have a look at this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londonderry_Air

Thanks DAVEG. We Celts have got to keep together!

Can we call this an honorable draw now Lin?

Regards to all and I hope we've all got something out of this.

And to Maureen a big thank you for hosting this debate.

John

[Lin Evans]

Hey John,

LOL - it's not a "contest" just a discussion so no "defeat" or "victory" is needed or assumed. Absolutely "honorable" and all opinions are welcome and equally valid I believe. The tune "Londonderry Air" is definitely Irish and a beautiful, lilting melody for the lyrics to Danny Boy in my opinion.

I also want to thank Maureen for furnishing a wonderful slideshow which has afforded us the opportunity to discuss our many different feelings and opinions about music and its application in our shows. Diversity is a breath of fresh air to me.

By the way, my ancestors were from Wales, Ireland, Germany, France, England and America. My wife's from America and Schleswig-Holstein (if you know that history, you "know" she's a mix - LOL).

Best regards,

Lin

Hi Lin,

I was about to concede defeat till I saw DAVEG's post. Have a look at this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Londonderry_Air

Thanks DAVEG. We Celts have got to keep together!

Can we call this an honorable draw now Lin?

Regards to all and I hope we've all got something out of this.

And to Maureen a big thank you for hosting this debate.

John

[davegee]

Which part of Wales?

DaveG

[xahu34]

... My wife's from America and Schleswig-Holstein (if you know that history, you "know" she's a mix - LOL) ...

Does she speak German (perhaps with a northern accent)?

Regards,

Xaver